Maemo Elections - Extended

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Quim Gil <quim.gil@nokia.com> wrote:

> On 04/02/2012 01:07 AM, ext Andrew Flegg wrote:
>
>> On 2 April 2012 04:58, Sunny B<sunnyb7532@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> We have already started plans to centralize open source parts of the
>>> community at www.maemocommunity.org.
>>>
>>
> Why the need to create a new Maemo site - in 2012? Apart from paying the
> maintenance bill, Nokia is not doing anything at maemo.org. The cost is
> mainly the extras/downloads part, which is something not trivial (neither
> cheap) to replicate elsewhere.
>
> What is the reason in moving away from maemo.org?
>
There are several reasons - the last reason for many of the developers is
that there are projects and software being developed which are being
hindered by the lack of cooperation we are getting from Nokia/Nemein. For
example, we have a long list of fremantle packages to be promoted and the
blocker is Nokia/Nemein. Extras downloads does us little good if packages
can't get into extras. The problem is serious - we can't even get replies
to our emails. If you can help, we would be very appreciative. There is
also generally the possible sunset of maemo.org at the end of the year and
that the open source parts of the community have learned it is unwise
to let its future depend on other entities.



> And still... maemo.org has in place many elements that other projects
> would wish to have. With some perspective I believe the problem is to
> define a project around a brand in a time and industry when brands can be
> so volatile.


Agreed that there are many elements that we want, except maybe for garage.
We have had some discussions already that you apparently don't know
about.



>
> If I would change anything in maemo.org I would go in the direction of
> widening the scope to "mobile + open + Linux", keeping the current angle on
> Nokia products but opening explicitly to other targets - making them feel
> home.

We cannot make that change at maemo.org, and so we have another answer to
your initial question. ;-0



> Then the infra behind http://apps.formeego.org is almost the best kept
> secret in the "mobile + open + Linux" community. Some connection would be
> beneficial for everybody.
>
It's not a secret to us (but the governance is). Do you remember when I
cautioned about that fragmentation in the first place? Well, we asked
Niels/Matti Airas to explain a proposal to combine harmattan and
maemo.orgmonths ago and have received no response. What do you do in
such a
situation? Let another person's inactivity stifle your own activity? So we
started plans to move on in large part because we have no other option. If
a connection can be made, then good.


>
>
> PS: Is there a thread at talk.maemo.org where I can re-post this? The
> current active community follows a lot more the forum than this list, I
> believe.
>
> I suggest you reacquaint yourself with recent events first. Most
> importantly, this is going off-topic. Let's keep this thread about council
> elections.
>

On Mon, 2012-04-02 at 12:52 -0400, robert bauer wrote:
> There are several reasons - the last reason for many of the developers
> is that there are projects and software being developed which are
> being hindered by the lack of cooperation we are getting from
> Nokia/Nemein. For example, we have a long list of fremantle packages
> to be promoted and the blocker is Nokia/Nemein. Extras downloads does
> us little good if packages can't get into extras. The problem is
> serious - we can't even get replies to our emails.

Could you elaborate on this, if possible?

andre

--
Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster)
http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/

Sunny B wrote:
> We have already started plans to centralize open source parts of the
> community at www.maemocommunity.org <http://www.maemocommunity.org>.
> Repos are first priority, then wiki, the forum is tricky. Input on
> value of community OBS for harmattan/fremantle/diablo would be
> appreciated at this point. Open for discussion and volunteers are
> definitely wanted. I would also check first to make sure that someone
> hasn't already mirrored the repos as discussed previously on the forum
> (sorry, don't have a link at the moment) as a safeguard against them.

Rob,

The few of us left on N900s would be interested to see council
discussions copied to the mailing list. Do you not run MeetBot or
something similar? The t.m.o forum is not something I keep up with.

I had no idea a new community site was starting.

Any discussions with Nokia should also be copied to the mailing list, if
appropriate.

There have been three nominations. Estel, ivgalvez and myself. More
are encouraged. Although much appreciated, I have not yet accepted my
nomination.

To be clear, the nomination period will close at 23:59 UTC, Saturday, 07
April. If voting is needed (4, 6, or more nominations), then it will be
from 00:00 UTC, Thursday, 12 April to 23:59, Wednesday, 18 April, 2012 (of
course, this is planned since it depends on Nemein).

Let's keep this thread focused on the nomination, election and voting
process please.
Rob (SD69)

On Sun, Apr 1, 2012 at 10:53 AM, robert bauer <nybauer@gmail.com> wrote:

> There have been no nominations. Let's extend the nomination period and
> the voting (if necessary) for a week.
>
> Rob
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 2:33 PM, robert bauer <nybauer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It's time for the next Maemo election. Any community member who has
>> karma of 100 or more may be nominated for Council or may nominate
>> themselves via the maemo community mailing list (nominations must also be
>> accepted to nteh mailing list). The nomination period will close at 23:59
>> UTC, Saturday, 31 March.
>>
>> The voting is preliminarily scheduled to run from 00:00 UTC, Thursday, 5
>> April to 23:59, Wednesday, 11 April, 2012. If the community decides to
>> nominate less than four nominees, then the nominees will be considered to
>> represent a consensus of the community and there will be no vote.
>>
>> If there is a need for a vote, each member of maemo.org, who has an
>> account that is more than 3 months old and who has earned over 10 "karma"
>> points on that account, gets an electronic ballot. The election is a
>> "single transferable vote". They rank their Council candidates in order of
>> preference; if their top candidate cannot get elected with the votes they
>> receive, the votes are redistributed until all council seats have been
>> allocated.
>>
>> Please give serious consideration to nominating people you trust with the
>> future of maemo. Nokia funding will end and Nokia cannot commit to handing
>> over or licensing the website or parts of the infrastructure to the
>> community. The current council has decided reorganizing maemo.org is
>> not feasible for the long term and has started looking into a possible Plan
>> B. There have also been proposals to bring Harmattan into maemo.org,
>> and to coordinate with other projects. It is preferable that the future of
>> maemo be made by a deliberate decision of the community. Please help that
>> happen by nominating and voting for council members of your choice.
>>
>
>

Hi Andre,

There is a thread on the testing squad ML and also a "supertesters"
thread on the forum. Please also contact ivgalvez if you can offer help or
advice.

Rob
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Andre Klapper <andre_klapper@gmx.net>wrote:

> On Mon, 2012-04-02 at 12:52 -0400, robert bauer wrote:
> > There are several reasons - the last reason for many of the developers
> > is that there are projects and software being developed which are
> > being hindered by the lack of cooperation we are getting from
> > Nokia/Nemein. For example, we have a long list of fremantle packages
> > to be promoted and the blocker is Nokia/Nemein. Extras downloads does
> > us little good if packages can't get into extras. The problem is
> > serious - we can't even get replies to our emails.
>
> Could you elaborate on this, if possible?
>
> andre
>
> --
> Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster)
> http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/
>
>

On 04/02/2012 05:52 PM, robert bauer wrote:

>> On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Quim Gil <quim.gil@nokia.com
>> <mailto:quim.gil@nokia.com>> wrote:
>>
>> PS: Is there a thread at talk.maemo.org <http://talk.maemo.org/>
>> where I can re-post this? The current active community follows a lot
>> more the forum than this list, I believe.
>
> I suggest you reacquaint yourself with recent events first. Most
> importantly, this is going off-topic. Let's keep this thread about
> council elections.

There is a thread about the elections on t.m.o:
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=83398

I've just posted to it saying that given the paucity of nominations,
then maybe if there aren't enough nominations for an election, there
should be one anyway, with "dissolve the council" as an option?

Jon.

On 2 April 2012 18:31, robert bauer <nybauer@gmail.com> wrote:
> There have been three nominations.  Estel, ivgalvez and myself.  More
> are encouraged.  Although much appreciated, I have not yet accepted my
> nomination.

To be picky/accurate/pedantic[delete as appropriate], I can see no
such nominations on the maemo-community list:

http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2012-April/date.html

Regards,

Andrew

--
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org  |  http://www.bleb.org/

On Monday 02 April 2012, Quim Gil wrote:

> What is the reason in moving away from maemo.org?

I know of several people who are convinced that any day now, there will
be a sudden and unannounced switch off of maemo.org in order to drive^W
restrict traffic to Ovi^W??? Store. For this reason they're running
regular backups of the repositories, afraid that all the software will
disappear.


Anyway, for argument's sake, if we theorized that the future direction
of maemo.org/maemo_OS isn't much of anything, is that reason enough to
switch it off? There are still users of Maemo and Maemo devices, and I
bet most aren't community active, or even have a t.m.o. account, garage
account or maemo.org account, but still use hildon-application-manager
or fapm.

I guess if extras is costing real money, it must be heavily used still?

Certainly the maemo operating system will see less development as cssu
runs into more and more reverse engineering work in order to move
forward, so the arguments about developer efforts being better spent on
Mer/Neomobile are probably sensible.. Mer/Neomobile has a chicken-and-
egg issue though, inertia keeping people on fremantle which is for many
more day to day usable.


-JK (Who just bought his 4th N900 (2 died of cellmo failure), because it
seemed easiest path to get a workable pocket browser, pocket email,
pocket computer than hacking on/cracking aegis-harmattan or android)

On 04/02/2012 01:38 PM, ext Jan Knutar wrote:
> On Monday 02 April 2012, Quim Gil wrote:
>
>> What is the reason in moving away from maemo.org?
>
> I know of several people who are convinced that any day now, there will
> be a sudden and unannounced switch off of maemo.org in order to drive^W
> restrict traffic to Ovi^W??? Store. For this reason they're running
> regular backups of the repositories, afraid that all the software will
> disappear.

Ok, this is not going to happen. Whatever happens we will know 3-6
months in advance since this is how budgeting goes. All 2012 is covered
as we speak (and afaik it was never under question). The time to discuss
about 2013 will start approximately after the Summer. It's always like
this, by the way.

You have my word with my @nokia.com domain and all. You can quote this
whenever someone has fear, uncertainty or doubt about maemo.org hosting.



> Anyway, for argument's sake, if we theorized that the future direction
> of maemo.org/maemo_OS isn't much of anything, is that reason enough to
> switch it off? There are still users of Maemo and Maemo devices, and I
> bet most aren't community active, or even have a t.m.o. account, garage
> account or maemo.org account, but still use hildon-application-manager
> or fapm.
>
> I guess if extras is costing real money, it must be heavily used still?

For argument's sake I fully agree with you. Actually I haven't heard
anybody at Nokia thinking otherwise. This is why we keep funding
maemo.org hosting (and apps.formeego.org hosting too, just saying).

--
Quim

Some people are imo just pushing the panic button way too early (and without a proper reason to do so) - have been banging it for quite some time now. It was made clear that the infra isn't going away over night or unexpectedly.

-Timo


Jan Knutar kirjoitti 2.4.2012 23:38:

On Monday 02 April 2012, Quim Gil wrote:


> What is the reason in moving away from maemo.org?


I know of several people who are convinced that any day now, there will
be a sudden and unannounced switch off of maemo.org in order to drive^W
restrict traffic to Ovi^W??? Store. For this reason they're running
regular backups of the repositories, afraid that all the software will
disappear.



Anyway, for argument's sake, if we theorized that the future direction
of maemo.org/maemo_OS isn't much of anything, is that reason enough to
switch it off? There are still users of Maemo and Maemo devices, and I
bet most aren't community active, or even have a t.m.o. account, garage
account or maemo.org account, but still use hildon-application-manager
or fapm.


I guess if extras is costing real money, it must be heavily used still?


Certainly the maemo operating system will see less development as cssu
runs into more and more reverse engineering work in order to move
forward, so the arguments about developer efforts being better spent on
Mer/Neomobile are probably sensible.. Mer/Neomobile has a chicken-and-
egg issue though, inertia keeping people on fremantle which is for many
more day to day usable.



-JK (Who just bought his 4th N900 (2 died of cellmo failure), because it
seemed easiest path to get a workable pocket browser, pocket email,
pocket computer than hacking on/cracking aegis-harmattan or android)

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