Maemo Elections - Extended

On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 9:13 AM, Andrew Flegg <andrew@bleb.org> wrote:

> On 3 April 2012 13:46, robert bauer <nybauer@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thanks for pointing that out. I don't see any way forward except to
> extend
> > for a month.
> >
> > I will invite referendum to amend the council rules...
>
> Why do you consider a month bad? We've seen this kick off a discussion
> about the difficulties the current council have faced; how things
> could be improved and a discussion about the future of the community.
>
> I don't expect fully thought through positions to emerge, unbidden,
> from the candidates. I hope a month of open, transparent discussion
> (about all the plans which they've considered/read/propose) would
> produce a much stronger idea of the candidates' ideas.
>
In these circumstances, it is another month we have two out of three
council members who are not active. Having the discussion is obviously
good. But I wouldn't be surprised if it dies down after a week or two and
we have a period of time just waiting for the vote.

On 4/3/2012 16:22, robert bauer wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 9:13 AM, Andrew Flegg <andrew@bleb.org
> <mailto:andrew@bleb.org>> wrote:
>
> On 3 April 2012 13:46, robert bauer <nybauer@gmail.com
> <mailto:nybauer@gmail.com>> wrote:
> > Thanks for pointing that out. I don't see any way forward
> except to extend
> > for a month.
> >
> > I will invite referendum to amend the council rules...
>
> Why do you consider a month bad? We've seen this kick off a discussion
> about the difficulties the current council have faced; how things
> could be improved and a discussion about the future of the community.
>
> I don't expect fully thought through positions to emerge, unbidden,
> from the candidates. I hope a month of open, transparent discussion
> (about all the plans which they've considered/read/propose) would
> produce a much stronger idea of the candidates' ideas.
>
> In these circumstances, it is another month we have two out of three
> council members who are not active. Having the discussion is
> obviously good. But I wouldn't be surprised if it dies down after a
> week or two and we have a period of time just waiting for the vote.
>
>

I would like to nominate for the elections:

SD69
Estel
Woody1649
Geneven

I am known on the forum as vi__

Regards,

Paul

On 3 April 2012 16:25, Paul Sleggs <psleggs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I would like to nominate for the elections:
>
> SD69

Good news - SD69 has already been nominated! He's not yet accepted, though:

http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2012-April/005019.html

> Estel

Even better news - Estel's already announced his candidacy so is
running in the election:

http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2012-April/005019.html

> Woody1649

Could you share Woody1649's maemo.org username? My traditional Google
search of "woody1649 inurl:maemo.org/profile" hasn't found anything.

Thanks in advance,

Andrew

--
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org  |  http://www.bleb.org/

While this could be discussed in the tester ml I'd prefer to keep this
discussion here since IMO it needs wider attention.

By looking at the QA queue [0] the oldest packages are promoted to testing
a year ago so the problems isn't exactly a new one. It needs to be resolved
anyway. First thing obviously is to get rid of the 6 pages long queue... I
propose making a test round (by 2+ people) for _all_ the packages there
promoting what can be promoted and then cleaning the older packages not fit
for promotion from testing. Since there's no automated system we need help
from Niels(?). So how about we provide a list of packages to promote/demote
to him? This will take a bit of effort but it needs to be done and cannot
be done by a single person.

I'm in. who else? Might be easiest to communicate this if we setup a IRC
channel. #maemo-testing or something?

[0] http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/

-Timo

3. huhtikuuta 2012 15.37 robert bauer <nybauer@gmail.com> kirjoitti:

>
>
> On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:51 AM, Andre Klapper <andre_klapper@gmx.net>wrote:
>
>> Hi Rob,
>>
>> On Mon, 2012-04-02 at 13:55 -0400, robert bauer wrote:
>> > There is a thread on the testing squad ML
>>
>>
>> https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/testingsquad-list/2012-March/thread.html
>>
>> > and also a "supertesters" thread on the forum.
>>
>> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82374
>>
>> > Please also contact ivgalvez if you can offer help or advice.
>>
>> You foreshadowed some issues in the quote below, I asked you to
>> elaborate on them. I won't read through the threads that I just had to
>> find myself, sorry - instead I expected you to summarize the issues, as
>> you initially came up with that topic here.
>>
>> In general it seems like there is a communication issue. It's depressing
>> to see such problems only made half-public by the council now, just
>> before an election.
>>
>> My two cents,
>> andre
>>
>> Sorry andre, I do a lot of things and can't search for you. I did point
> you in the right direction though. The topic came up in response to a
> question from Quim, not really raised by me. The testing ML is fully
> public (not half-public), and the topic was discussed on the forum and on a
> mailing list. There is no communication issue among those who have been
> involved.
>
> Rob
>
>
>
>
>>
>> > On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Andre Klapper <andre_klapper@gmx.net>
>> > wrote:
>> > On Mon, 2012-04-02 at 12:52 -0400, robert bauer wrote:
>> > > There are several reasons - the last reason for many of the
>> > developers
>> > > is that there are projects and software being developed
>> > which are
>> > > being hindered by the lack of cooperation we are getting
>> > from
>> > > Nokia/Nemein. For example, we have a long list of fremantle
>> > packages
>> > > to be promoted and the blocker is Nokia/Nemein. Extras
>> > downloads does
>> > > us little good if packages can't get into extras. The
>> > problem is
>> > > serious - we can't even get replies to our emails.
>> >
>> > Could you elaborate on this, if possible?
>> >
>> > andre
>> >
>>
>
>
>
>

Exactly, the problem has existed from a very long time and it's time to fix
it for good.

But just promoting a few applications now, won't avoid the problem in the
long term. We need to provide an automatic mechanism for promotion once
that applications have fulfilled the criteria to avoid dependency on
original (and maybe missing after some time) maintainer.

Besides the root of this problem (and others) is the fact that the
community, the Council, the developers, don't have the possibility to
actually do things and fix the problems that arise from time to time.

We have been trying to contact Niels and Henry for the last month to set up
a meeting on the IRC to discuss how to proceed, but we haven't receive any
answer yet.

Regards.

2012/4/3 Timo Härkönen <timop.harkonen@gmail.com>

> While this could be discussed in the tester ml I'd prefer to keep this
> discussion here since IMO it needs wider attention.
>
> By looking at the QA queue [0] the oldest packages are promoted to testing
> a year ago so the problems isn't exactly a new one. It needs to be resolved
> anyway. First thing obviously is to get rid of the 6 pages long queue... I
> propose making a test round (by 2+ people) for _all_ the packages there
> promoting what can be promoted and then cleaning the older packages not fit
> for promotion from testing. Since there's no automated system we need help
> from Niels(?). So how about we provide a list of packages to promote/demote
> to him? This will take a bit of effort but it needs to be done and cannot
> be done by a single person.
>
> I'm in. who else? Might be easiest to communicate this if we setup a IRC
> channel. #maemo-testing or something?
>
> [0] http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/
>
> -Timo
>
> 3. huhtikuuta 2012 15.37 robert bauer <nybauer@gmail.com> kirjoitti:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:51 AM, Andre Klapper <andre_klapper@gmx.net>wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Rob,
>>>
>>> On Mon, 2012-04-02 at 13:55 -0400, robert bauer wrote:
>>> > There is a thread on the testing squad ML
>>>
>>>
>>> https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/testingsquad-list/2012-March/thread.html
>>>
>>> > and also a "supertesters" thread on the forum.
>>>
>>> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82374
>>>
>>> > Please also contact ivgalvez if you can offer help or advice.
>>>
>>> You foreshadowed some issues in the quote below, I asked you to
>>> elaborate on them. I won't read through the threads that I just had to
>>> find myself, sorry - instead I expected you to summarize the issues, as
>>> you initially came up with that topic here.
>>>
>>> In general it seems like there is a communication issue. It's depressing
>>> to see such problems only made half-public by the council now, just
>>> before an election.
>>>
>>> My two cents,
>>> andre
>>>
>>> Sorry andre, I do a lot of things and can't search for you. I did point
>> you in the right direction though. The topic came up in response to a
>> question from Quim, not really raised by me. The testing ML is fully
>> public (not half-public), and the topic was discussed on the forum and on a
>> mailing list. There is no communication issue among those who have been
>> involved.
>>
>> Rob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> > On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Andre Klapper <andre_klapper@gmx.net>
>>> > wrote:
>>> > On Mon, 2012-04-02 at 12:52 -0400, robert bauer wrote:
>>> > > There are several reasons - the last reason for many of the
>>> > developers
>>> > > is that there are projects and software being developed
>>> > which are
>>> > > being hindered by the lack of cooperation we are getting
>>> > from
>>> > > Nokia/Nemein. For example, we have a long list of fremantle
>>> > packages
>>> > > to be promoted and the blocker is Nokia/Nemein. Extras
>>> > downloads does
>>> > > us little good if packages can't get into extras. The
>>> > problem is
>>> > > serious - we can't even get replies to our emails.
>>> >
>>> > Could you elaborate on this, if possible?
>>> >
>>> > andre
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>


--
Iván Gálvez Junquera

Do we have a phone number we can try them on? Is it possible the emails are getting lost or trapped in a spam folder?

Joseph Charpak

----- Original Message -----
From: "Iván Gálvez Junquera" <ivgalvez@gmail.com>
To: "List for community development" <maemo-community@maemo.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 3, 2012 2:14:18 PM
Subject: Re: Blocked Fremantle packages to promote [was: Re: Maemo Elections - Extended]

Exactly, the problem has existed from a very long time and it's time to fix it for good.

But just promoting a few applications now, won't avoid the problem in the long term. We need to provide an automatic mechanism for promotion once that applications have fulfilled the criteria to avoid dependency on original (and maybe missing after some time) maintainer.

Besides the root of this problem (and others) is the fact that the community, the Council, the developers, don't have the possibility to actually do things and fix the problems that arise from time to time.

We have been trying to contact Niels and Henry for the last month to set up a meeting on the IRC to discuss how to proceed, but we haven't receive any answer yet.

Regards.


2012/4/3 Timo Härkönen < timop.harkonen@gmail.com >


While this could be discussed in the tester ml I'd prefer to keep this discussion here since IMO it needs wider attention.


By looking at the QA queue [0] the oldest packages are promoted to testing a year ago so the problems isn't exactly a new one. It needs to be resolved anyway. First thing obviously is to get rid of the 6 pages long queue... I propose making a test round (by 2+ people) for _all_ the packages there promoting what can be promoted and then cleaning the older packages not fit for promotion from testing. Since there's no automated system we need help from Niels(?). So how about we provide a list of packages to promote/demote to him? This will take a bit of effort but it needs to be done and cannot be done by a single person.


I'm in. who else? Might be easiest to communicate this if we setup a IRC channel. #maemo-testing or something?


[0] http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/


-Timo


3. huhtikuuta 2012 15.37 robert bauer < nybauer@gmail.com > kirjoitti:

<blockquote>






On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:51 AM, Andre Klapper < andre_klapper@gmx.net > wrote:

<blockquote>
Hi Rob,


On Mon, 2012-04-02 at 13:55 -0400, robert bauer wrote:
> There is a thread on the testing squad ML

https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/testingsquad-list/2012-March/thread.html


> and also a "supertesters" thread on the forum.

http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82374


> Please also contact ivgalvez if you can offer help or advice.

You foreshadowed some issues in the quote below, I asked you to
elaborate on them. I won't read through the threads that I just had to
find myself, sorry - instead I expected you to summarize the issues, as
you initially came up with that topic here.

In general it seems like there is a communication issue. It's depressing
to see such problems only made half-public by the council now, just
before an election.

My two cents,
andre







Sorry andre, I do a lot of things and can't search for you. I did point you in the right direction though. The topic came up in response to a question from Quim, not really raised by me. The testing ML is fully public (not half-public), and the topic was discussed on the forum and on a mailing list. There is no communication issue among those who have been involved.

Rob




<blockquote>



> On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Andre Klapper < andre_klapper@gmx.net >
> wrote:
> On Mon, 2012-04-02 at 12:52 -0400, robert bauer wrote:
> > There are several reasons - the last reason for many of the
> developers
> > is that there are projects and software being developed
> which are
> > being hindered by the lack of cooperation we are getting
> from
> > Nokia/Nemein. For example, we have a long list of fremantle
> packages
> > to be promoted and the blocker is Nokia/Nemein. Extras
> downloads does
> > us little good if packages can't get into extras. The
> problem is
> > serious - we can't even get replies to our emails.
>
> Could you elaborate on this, if possible?
>
> andre
>

</blockquote>



_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community


</blockquote>


_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community


</blockquote>



--
Iván Gálvez Junquera

_______________________________________________
maemo-community mailing list
maemo-community@maemo.org
https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community

Ok. So need to start poking more. Maybe Quim can weight in how to solve the
problem if this is mainly caused by communication problems (and the lack of
automated promotion system)?

btw, do I remember wrong that at some point there was a plan to move away
from the current autobuilder and start using OBS? OBS would make it trivial
to give gatekeeper rights to trusted people. Basically do what
apps.formeego.org is doing with Harmattan applications.

-Timo

3. huhtikuuta 2012 21.14 Iván Gálvez Junquera <ivgalvez@gmail.com>kirjoitti:

> Exactly, the problem has existed from a very long time and it's time to
> fix it for good.
>
> But just promoting a few applications now, won't avoid the problem in the
> long term. We need to provide an automatic mechanism for promotion once
> that applications have fulfilled the criteria to avoid dependency on
> original (and maybe missing after some time) maintainer.
>
> Besides the root of this problem (and others) is the fact that the
> community, the Council, the developers, don't have the possibility to
> actually do things and fix the problems that arise from time to time.
>
> We have been trying to contact Niels and Henry for the last month to set
> up a meeting on the IRC to discuss how to proceed, but we haven't receive
> any answer yet.
>
> Regards.
>
>
> 2012/4/3 Timo Härkönen <timop.harkonen@gmail.com>
>
>> While this could be discussed in the tester ml I'd prefer to keep this
>> discussion here since IMO it needs wider attention.
>>
>> By looking at the QA queue [0] the oldest packages are promoted to
>> testing a year ago so the problems isn't exactly a new one. It needs to be
>> resolved anyway. First thing obviously is to get rid of the 6 pages long
>> queue... I propose making a test round (by 2+ people) for _all_ the
>> packages there promoting what can be promoted and then cleaning the older
>> packages not fit for promotion from testing. Since there's no automated
>> system we need help from Niels(?). So how about we provide a list of
>> packages to promote/demote to him? This will take a bit of effort but it
>> needs to be done and cannot be done by a single person.
>>
>> I'm in. who else? Might be easiest to communicate this if we setup a IRC
>> channel. #maemo-testing or something?
>>
>> [0] http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/
>>
>> -Timo
>>
>> 3. huhtikuuta 2012 15.37 robert bauer <nybauer@gmail.com> kirjoitti:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 3, 2012 at 3:51 AM, Andre Klapper <andre_klapper@gmx.net>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Rob,
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 2012-04-02 at 13:55 -0400, robert bauer wrote:
>>>> > There is a thread on the testing squad ML
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/testingsquad-list/2012-March/thread.html
>>>>
>>>> > and also a "supertesters" thread on the forum.
>>>>
>>>> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82374
>>>>
>>>> > Please also contact ivgalvez if you can offer help or advice.
>>>>
>>>> You foreshadowed some issues in the quote below, I asked you to
>>>> elaborate on them. I won't read through the threads that I just had to
>>>> find myself, sorry - instead I expected you to summarize the issues, as
>>>> you initially came up with that topic here.
>>>>
>>>> In general it seems like there is a communication issue. It's depressing
>>>> to see such problems only made half-public by the council now, just
>>>> before an election.
>>>>
>>>> My two cents,
>>>> andre
>>>>
>>>> Sorry andre, I do a lot of things and can't search for you. I did
>>> point you in the right direction though. The topic came up in response to
>>> a question from Quim, not really raised by me. The testing ML is fully
>>> public (not half-public), and the topic was discussed on the forum and on a
>>> mailing list. There is no communication issue among those who have been
>>> involved.
>>>
>>> Rob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> > On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 12:56 PM, Andre Klapper <andre_klapper@gmx.net
>>>> >
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> > On Mon, 2012-04-02 at 12:52 -0400, robert bauer wrote:
>>>> > > There are several reasons - the last reason for many of the
>>>> > developers
>>>> > > is that there are projects and software being developed
>>>> > which are
>>>> > > being hindered by the lack of cooperation we are getting
>>>> > from
>>>> > > Nokia/Nemein. For example, we have a long list of fremantle
>>>> > packages
>>>> > > to be promoted and the blocker is Nokia/Nemein. Extras
>>>> > downloads does
>>>> > > us little good if packages can't get into extras. The
>>>> > problem is
>>>> > > serious - we can't even get replies to our emails.
>>>> >
>>>> > Could you elaborate on this, if possible?
>>>> >
>>>> > andre
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Iván Gálvez Junquera
>
>
>

---- Andrew Flegg <andrew@bleb.org> wrote:
>> Woody1649
>
>Could you share Woody1649's maemo.org username?

I believe he was attempting to nominate me. My forum name is Woody14619.

Currently I'm awaiting a refresh of the Karma system, as until 2 days ago my TMO account was not linked to the garage. (Thanks to several for pointing that out.) Since I already had 63 Karma, I'm pretty sure the couple thousand posts/thanks on TMO will push me over the 100. :) The garage page indicates that the system auto-updates every few days, so if that's right there would seem little need to push for a special recount. And while I'm aware that until the Karma counter updates nothing is "official", I will accept nomination once I qualify.

I've seen your questions to others Andrew, and will attempt to answer them in a separate email in the next couple day once I've had a chance to give then the proper contemplation they deserve. It would seem with the 1 month extension that there's not quite the urgency there was yesterday to do it tomorrow. :)

In addition, I would like to nominate gerbick, as he's made a self-nomination in the TMO forums, but hasn't quite made it here yet to do so in person.


-Woody(14619)

On Mon, Apr 02, 2012 at 09:09:20AM -0700, Quim Gil wrote:
> On 04/02/2012 01:07 AM, ext Andrew Flegg wrote:
> >On 2 April 2012 04:58, Sunny B<sunnyb7532@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>We have already started plans to centralize open source parts of the
> >>community at www.maemocommunity.org.
>
> Why the need to create a new Maemo site - in 2012? Apart from paying
> the maintenance bill, Nokia is not doing anything at maemo.org. The
> cost is mainly the extras/downloads part, which is something not
> trivial (neither cheap) to replicate elsewhere.

I agree with Quim here. There is no way to successfully replicate all
the hard work done on Maemo.org. Bring other projects in and make it
bigger.

> What is the reason in moving away from maemo.org?

Presumably the feeling that Nokia abandoned Maemo and that the community
wants to control their own fate.

Regards,

Jeremiah

On Wed, Apr 4, 2012 at 7:21 AM, Jeremiah C. Foster <
jeremiah@jeremiahfoster.com> wrote:

> I agree with Quim here. There is no way to successfully replicate all
> the hard work done on Maemo.org. Bring other projects in and make it
> bigger.


Hmm. All the while I thought that this "plan b" is what the current council
is pushing for? I'm glad that one is at least not in favor.