Good bye!

don't have time for the mailing list chit chat now, but i was aware of this
list since a few day so wherever it was, it was published before

On 26 June 2012 23:53, Andre Klapper <andre_klapper@gmx.net> wrote:

> On Mon, 2012-06-25 at 21:06 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
> > The last great stand, a.k.a. "Community Awards"
>
> BTW: Looks like "Community Awards" results were silently (in the sense
> of not mentioning it on the dedicated community mailing list) published
> on https://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Awards#Winners for those who care.
>
> andre
>
>

Of course - in fact, it would require quite much lack of involvement
in Community - as a whole - for not being aware of it. After all,
maemo.org News + Council Blog + TMO + Wiki + IRC isn't "hidden" under
rock.

Of course, we will take more care in future, to remember about mailing
list to (which was, anyway, spammed to hell about CA, for 3 weeks).

/Estel

2012/6/27, claude bucher <claudebucher@gmail.com>:
> don't have time for the mailing list chit chat now, but i was aware of this
> list since a few day so wherever it was, it was published before
>
> On 26 June 2012 23:53, Andre Klapper <andre_klapper@gmx.net> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 2012-06-25 at 21:06 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
>> > The last great stand, a.k.a. "Community Awards"
>>
>> BTW: Looks like "Community Awards" results were silently (in the sense
>> of not mentioning it on the dedicated community mailing list) published
>> on https://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Awards#Winners for those who care.
>>
>> andre
>>
>>
>

On Wed, 2012-06-27 at 06:58 +0200, Piotr Jawidzyk wrote:
> Of course - in fact, it would require quite much lack of involvement
> in Community - as a whole - for not being aware of it. After all,
> maemo.org News + Council Blog + TMO + Wiki + IRC isn't "hidden" under
> rock.

Estel,

I follow the mailing lists closely as I read my mail every day.
I'm on IRC nearly every day and I occasionally read the planet, the
forums and the bugtracker - obviously not close enough for the last days
to fulfil your requirements to be "involved in community".

Calling this "lack of involvement" sounds like belittling others and
creating artificial entrance barriers ("You are not part of the
community as long as you don't follow enough news sources") without any
need. I hope that is not your intention - it's just how it looks to me.

andre
--
Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster & GNOME Bugsquad)
http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/

I think part of the issue is that there are so many channels, and so much info goes through, that it's easy to miss things. That is, in fact, a good reason to have the mailing list, since it seems to catch the attention of everyone on it, being a less "noisy" medium.

The CA results were posted to the community blog initially, which creates a TMO item automatically. It was also updated on the wiki, where submissions were being collected, and announced on IRC. It was not properly announced here on the mailing list, which is frankly our bad, it should have been. Understand, we're all human here, and at times forget if we've done something or not.

I think the best solution here is to find a way to help prevent this mistake from happening again. Perhaps a nice solution for this would be to subscribe the community mailing list to the Council Blog feed. That allows an automated way for important messages to have one source and propagate to multiple venues in a way that we can't accidentally forget. Currently that gets the occasional announcement for odd events (like CA, CC, etc) and Council meeting minutes. Does that sound reasonable?

-Craig

2012/6/27, Andre Klapper <andre_klapper@gmx.net>:
> On Wed, 2012-06-27 at 06:58 +0200, Piotr Jawidzyk wrote:
>> Of course - in fact, it would require quite much lack of involvement
>> in Community - as a whole - for not being aware of it. After all,
>> maemo.org News + Council Blog + TMO + Wiki + IRC isn't "hidden" under
>> rock.
>
> Estel,
>
> I follow the mailing lists closely as I read my mail every day.
> I'm on IRC nearly every day and I occasionally read the planet, the
> forums and the bugtracker - obviously not close enough for the last days
> to fulfil your requirements to be "involved in community".
>
> Calling this "lack of involvement" sounds like belittling others and
> creating artificial entrance barriers ("You are not part of the
> community as long as you don't follow enough news sources") without any
> need. I hope that is not your intention - it's just how it looks to me.
>
> andre
> --
> Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster & GNOME Bugsquad)
> http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/

Andre, of course it wasn't my intention. I liked to highlight every
place, where results were announced, to "kill" any suggestions, that
there was any malicious intention of hiding it. As results are since
more than week now, I'm surprised a little, when someone active in
Community isn't aware of it. Yet, "surprised" doesn't mean "pointing
finger with accusation".

Please, lets keep "people mean well" as base, of how we read other's mails :)

/Estel

Ps.

By the way, I'm equally surprised, that we forget to forward results
to ML - it was, by all means, mistake. Don't take my list of places
where it was announced as "defending" it - again, it's acknowledged
mistake, and I'm glad that You've pointed it out. Good catch!

Hi,

This was actually my fault. After several hours for processing the submissions, preparing the wiki and the final announcement, I totally forgot about sending it to the mailing list.

Indeed, Woody's proposal seems perfect. Who's actually the administrator for mailing lists?

Regards
On mié, 27 de jun de 2012 20:34:10 WEST, S. Howard <howards@gmx.co.uk> wrote:

> Yes.
>
> Howard
>
> On 27/06/2012 19:17, Craig Woodward wrote:
>
> >
> > I think part of the issue is that there are so many channels, and so
> > much info goes through, that it's easy to miss things.  That is, in
> > fact, a good reason to have the mailing list, since it seems to catch
> > the attention of everyone on it, being a less "noisy" medium.
> >
> > The CA results were posted to the community blog initially, which
> > creates a TMO item automatically.  It was also updated on the wiki,
> > where submissions were being collected, and announced on IRC.  It was
> > not properly announced here on the mailing list, which is frankly our
> > bad, it should have been.  Understand, we're all human here, and at
> > times forget if we've done something or not.
> >
> > I think the best solution here is to find a way to help prevent this
> > mistake from happening again. Perhaps a nice solution for this would
> > be to subscribe the community mailing list to the Council Blog feed.
> > That allows an automated way for important messages to have one source
> > and propagate to multiple venues in a way that we can't accidentally
> > forget.  Currently that gets the occasional announcement for odd
> > events (like CA, CC, etc) and Council meeting minutes.  Does that
> > sound reasonable?
> >
> > -Craig
> > _______________________________________________
> > maemo-community mailing list
> > maemo-community@maemo.org
> > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community
>
>

On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Craig Woodward <woody@rochester.rr.com>wrote:

>
> I think the best solution here is to find a way to help prevent this
> mistake from happening again. Perhaps a nice solution for this would be to
> subscribe the community mailing list to the Council Blog feed. That allows
> an automated way for important messages to have one source and propagate to
> multiple venues in a way that we can't accidentally forget. Currently that
> gets the occasional announcement for odd events (like CA, CC, etc) and
> Council meeting minutes. Does that sound reasonable?
>
> -Craig
>
I certainly think it is reasonable. The consideration is that we probably
turn to X-Fade to do this, and I think he should be prioritized to finish
the cOBS and then other things after that. And then beyond that how many
times will this be used before maemo.org is migrated, and the new community
website will have different infrastructure? So I think we say oops about
this, and move on to the more important tasks.

Rob

Rpb

On 28 June 2012 17:03, robert bauer <nybauer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Craig Woodward <woody@rochester.rr.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> I think the best solution here is to find a way to help prevent this
>> mistake from happening again. Perhaps a nice solution for this would be to
>> subscribe the community mailing list to the Council Blog feed.  That allows
>> an automated way for important messages to have one source and propagate to
>> multiple venues in a way that we can't accidentally forget.  Currently that
>> gets the occasional announcement for odd events (like CA, CC, etc) and
>> Council meeting minutes.  Does that sound reasonable?

Yes. Sounds very sensible.

> I certainly think it is reasonable.  The consideration is that we probably
> turn to X-Fade to do this, and I think he should be prioritized to finish
> the cOBS and then other things after that. [...]

Agree with your prioritisation, but I disagree with the assumption
which underlies it :-)

The technical design for this aggregation is:

* Something monitors the Council blog RSS feed
* If a new article is detected, turn it from HTML into plain text
(using `links' perhaps)
* Send an email with a 'from:' line which is subscribed to maemo-community
to maemo-community@...

The "from" line would, ideally, be council@maemo.org of course.

So, the only thing which requires *any* sort of official involvement
is someone who can subscribe council@maemo.org to maemo-community (so
that the emails from this bot/script won't get caught in moderation).
It could even be subscribed to not receive emails (so the council
don't get double-spammed through their forwarding).

If the council sets it up so that council@maemo.org is subscribed to
the mailing list, ANYONE can then implement a bot to monitor the RSS
feed and turn its posts into emails.

It then needs to be run on a regular basis (e.g. via a cronjob) on any
permanently Internet-connected machine. Ideally, this'd be something
under the Nemein support contract so it's backed-up/maintained; but
deploying it doesn't have to be related to writing it.

Anybody could write it. X-Fade could deploy it within 5 minutes if
it's well written, and if that's problematic, I'd be willing to host
it (if it's well written).

The source should also be in a sensible place, but putting it in the
garage project for the maemo.org source code would seem sensible. But
it wouldn't need to integrate into Midgard or even be written in PHP
(Perl would be what *I* would write it in, if I had time to do so).

Hopefully this'd give enough of a spec for:

a) the council to subscribe the mail alias to the mailing list
b) someone to write the actual script

HTH,

Andrew

--
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org  |  http://www.bleb.org/

Unfortunately, the feed service for the site does not offer a self-signup e-mail version. I will instead setup a small feed streamer to check and forward a link when new posts appear, as the infrastructure will likely change and as noted X-Fade has far more important items on his plate. :)


---- robert bauer <nybauer@gmail.com> wrote:

=============
On Wed, Jun 27, 2012 at 2:17 PM, Craig Woodward <woody@rochester.rr.com>wrote:

>
> I think the best solution here is to find a way to help prevent this
> mistake from happening again. Perhaps a nice solution for this would be to
> subscribe the community mailing list to the Council Blog feed. That allows
> an automated way for important messages to have one source and propagate to
> multiple venues in a way that we can't accidentally forget. Currently that
> gets the occasional announcement for odd events (like CA, CC, etc) and
> Council meeting minutes. Does that sound reasonable?
>
> -Craig
>
I certainly think it is reasonable. The consideration is that we probably
turn to X-Fade to do this, and I think he should be prioritized to finish
the cOBS and then other things after that. And then beyond that how many
times will this be used before maemo.org is migrated, and the new community
website will have different infrastructure? So I think we say oops about
this, and move on to the more important tasks.

Rob

Rpb