Validity criteria for bugtrackers and bugtrackers links
Re: Validity criteria for bugtrackers and bugtrackers links
Re: Validity criteria for bugtrackers and bugtrackers links
2010-03-09 12:47 UTC
Am Dienstag, den 09.03.2010, 10:35 +0000 schrieb Graham Cobb:
> On Tuesday 09 March 2010 10:09:36 Andre Klapper wrote:
> > Am Montag, den 08.03.2010, 22:19 +0000 schrieb Graham Cobb:
> > > On Monday 08 March 2010 21:30:50 Valerio Valerio wrote:
> > > > What about www.google.com ? seems the same for me :).
> > >
> > > It isn't the same because there is no way to enter a bug report.
> > > However, I would allow it. If someone makes that their bugtracker then
> > > they are saying they are not interested in bugs.
> ...
> > Must be quite frustrating for users that just wanted to help a developer
> > improving his/her application.
>
> Users don't report bugs to help developers improve their application (testers,
> other developers might, but users don't).
You're right. Please change my sentence to "Must be quite frustrating
for testers/other develoeprs that just wanted to help a developer
improving his/her application." which does not make it a less valid to
me.
andre
--
Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster)
> On Tuesday 09 March 2010 10:09:36 Andre Klapper wrote:
> > Am Montag, den 08.03.2010, 22:19 +0000 schrieb Graham Cobb:
> > > On Monday 08 March 2010 21:30:50 Valerio Valerio wrote:
> > > > What about www.google.com ? seems the same for me :).
> > >
> > > It isn't the same because there is no way to enter a bug report.
> > > However, I would allow it. If someone makes that their bugtracker then
> > > they are saying they are not interested in bugs.
> ...
> > Must be quite frustrating for users that just wanted to help a developer
> > improving his/her application.
>
> Users don't report bugs to help developers improve their application (testers,
> other developers might, but users don't).
You're right. Please change my sentence to "Must be quite frustrating
for testers/other develoeprs that just wanted to help a developer
improving his/her application." which does not make it a less valid to
me.
andre
--
Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster)
Aw: Re: Validity criteria for bugtrackers and bugtrackers links
2010-03-11 04:11 UTC
Hi,
----- Ursprüngliche Mitteilung -----
> On Monday 08 March 2010 21:30:50 Valerio Valerio wrote:
> > What about www.google.com ? seems the same for me :).
>
> It isn't the same because there is no way to enter a bug report. However, I
> would allow it. If someone makes that their bugtracker then they are saying
> they are not interested in bugs. Nothing we can do can make them interested
> in bugs so at least if they do that they are being more honest than someone
> who opens a maemo bugzilla product and then completely ignores it.
I would disagree. :) In this case I (as a tester) know exactly where I can expect reported bugs and the developers feedback and I can see how other bug entries are handled by th developer(s). As a consequence I as a tester can decide if it's worth to use my (also very precious) time to make a report or not.
If I make a report at least other testers can see that an issue is already reported and save their time. An example: I stopped to report bugs to canola because there is no feedback for reports at the moment. Other people willing to fill bug reports will see this and stop wasting their time.
For me as someone who is willing to put time into reporting bugs and also willing to test applications which I wouldn't test as 'normal user', the attemt of a developer to bring it's application to the extras repository is also a clear signal for feedback and bug reports. That's a part of the process what makes an application ready for a _wide_ range of *users*.
If a developer is not willing to get bug reports he/she should use extras-devel. That's also not a problem for me. :)
> The rule should be that the developer has thought about it and put something
> in. There should be recommendations for best practice. That is all we need.
>
> > That could work if that project has a product at bugzilla or a specific
> > thread at TMO(generaly they don't have), but don't you think it will be
> > hard to find ?
>
> In bugzilla? No. In t.m.o? People would just create new threads, which
> might be exactly what the developer prefers.
IMHO t.m.o. is way to unspecific. It should not be fotune that a developer gets bug reports and also a tester should nor have to search for a long time to find out where to report an issue.
> Nothing we do can make him interested in the bugs so if he doesn't
> want to make it easy for people to report them at least it saves them wasting
> their time.
As written above in this case at least it holds testers to report an issue again and again and safes their time.
> Like other quality issues, the issue is likely to be commented on by a
> reviewer and reflected in any ratings. That is the real pressure on the
> developer, not the QA process.
The goal is to have not too much 'bad' apps in extras and at the moment there only is a way to keep applications out of this repository. I assume for a developer it also is a goal to put his/her app onto a stage (extras repository) where he/she gets a HUGE number of users (and voters).
Best regards,
Uwe Kaminski
--
http://internettabletblog.de
----- Ursprüngliche Mitteilung -----
> On Monday 08 March 2010 21:30:50 Valerio Valerio wrote:
> > What about www.google.com ? seems the same for me :).
>
> It isn't the same because there is no way to enter a bug report. However, I
> would allow it. If someone makes that their bugtracker then they are saying
> they are not interested in bugs. Nothing we can do can make them interested
> in bugs so at least if they do that they are being more honest than someone
> who opens a maemo bugzilla product and then completely ignores it.
I would disagree. :) In this case I (as a tester) know exactly where I can expect reported bugs and the developers feedback and I can see how other bug entries are handled by th developer(s). As a consequence I as a tester can decide if it's worth to use my (also very precious) time to make a report or not.
If I make a report at least other testers can see that an issue is already reported and save their time. An example: I stopped to report bugs to canola because there is no feedback for reports at the moment. Other people willing to fill bug reports will see this and stop wasting their time.
For me as someone who is willing to put time into reporting bugs and also willing to test applications which I wouldn't test as 'normal user', the attemt of a developer to bring it's application to the extras repository is also a clear signal for feedback and bug reports. That's a part of the process what makes an application ready for a _wide_ range of *users*.
If a developer is not willing to get bug reports he/she should use extras-devel. That's also not a problem for me. :)
> The rule should be that the developer has thought about it and put something
> in. There should be recommendations for best practice. That is all we need.
>
> > That could work if that project has a product at bugzilla or a specific
> > thread at TMO(generaly they don't have), but don't you think it will be
> > hard to find ?
>
> In bugzilla? No. In t.m.o? People would just create new threads, which
> might be exactly what the developer prefers.
IMHO t.m.o. is way to unspecific. It should not be fotune that a developer gets bug reports and also a tester should nor have to search for a long time to find out where to report an issue.
> Nothing we do can make him interested in the bugs so if he doesn't
> want to make it easy for people to report them at least it saves them wasting
> their time.
As written above in this case at least it holds testers to report an issue again and again and safes their time.
> Like other quality issues, the issue is likely to be commented on by a
> reviewer and reflected in any ratings. That is the real pressure on the
> developer, not the QA process.
The goal is to have not too much 'bad' apps in extras and at the moment there only is a way to keep applications out of this repository. I assume for a developer it also is a goal to put his/her app onto a stage (extras repository) where he/she gets a HUGE number of users (and voters).
Best regards,
Uwe Kaminski
--
http://internettabletblog.de
> Am Montag, den 08.03.2010, 22:19 +0000 schrieb Graham Cobb:
> > On Monday 08 March 2010 21:30:50 Valerio Valerio wrote:
> > > What about www.google.com ? seems the same for me :).
> >
> > It isn't the same because there is no way to enter a bug report.
> > However, I would allow it. If someone makes that their bugtracker then
> > they are saying they are not interested in bugs.
...
> Must be quite frustrating for users that just wanted to help a developer
> improving his/her application.
Users don't report bugs to help developers improve their application (testers,
other developers might, but users don't). Users report bugs because they are
having a problem and are hoping for a fix (help, a workround, or a software
udpate). If the developer does not intend to accept or act on bug reports
then Google is a better option than entering a bug which will be ignored,
checking it every day, getting more and more frustrated.
Bottom line: this process is not about making developers into better people.
The only way to do that is incentives (karma, giveaways, free beer,
whatever).
Graham