Coding competition 2011 - mass emailing

Hi,

Before the voting part for the 2011 coding competition really gets out
of hand I decided to check the situation.

For elections in the past we always filtered the number of people who
were eligible to vote. The filtering was done based on the karma value.
This filtering ensured that we are not sending out tens of thousands of
emails in a batch. The 2011 coding competition now requires us to send a
minimum amount of ~57000 emails (which is already a lot). This number is
valid only if we change the mailing scripts and send 1 email per person
for all the 9 categories they can vote for. If we don't change the
mailing system then it means > 513k emails.

This is not going to happen as long as I am root on the maemo servers.
We are not going to become a spammer organization no matter what.

I would suggest to revise the plans and take this voting to a web based
system.

ferenc
--
maemo.org sysadmin, developer
email: ferenc@maemo.org

[1] http://wiki.maemo.org/MeeGo_Coding_Competition_2011

On 8 November 2011 10:22, Ferenc Szekely <ferenc@maemo.org> wrote:
>
> The 2011 coding competition now requires us to send a
> minimum amount of ~57000 emails (which is already a lot).

I saw zehjotkah's tweet; it does seem like a crazy number of emails.
Is it being proposed - by the Coding Competition - that *anyone* with
a maemo.org account will be invited to vote?

Lots of people have created them, but aren't really part of the
"community". If those are the rules of the Coding Competition, I
suggest they are changed to limit the number of emails; or blogs/list
announcements/banners on maemo.org are used to inform people of it.

When I worked in corporate communications, everyone thought their
particular topic was the single most important thing... <clarkson>in
the world</clarkson> and wanted it emailed to everyone. This is not
one of those situations (and the situations in which all maemo.org
account holders would be emailed seem limited to things like security
issues with the accounts database, or the future of the site).

Hope that helps,

Andrew

--
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org  |  http://www.bleb.org/

According to the rules [1] only users of maemo.org who are registered at
the time of voting for at least four months are entitled to vote.

We could specify more filters, like user with over {amount} of karma are
invited to vote.

[1] http://wiki.maemo.org/MeeGo_Coding_Competition_2011#Rules


2011/11/8 Andrew Flegg <andrew@bleb.org>

> On 8 November 2011 10:22, Ferenc Szekely <ferenc@maemo.org> wrote:
> >
> > The 2011 coding competition now requires us to send a
> > minimum amount of ~57000 emails (which is already a lot).
>
> I saw zehjotkah's tweet; it does seem like a crazy number of emails.
> Is it being proposed - by the Coding Competition - that *anyone* with
> a maemo.org account will be invited to vote?
>
> Lots of people have created them, but aren't really part of the
> "community". If those are the rules of the Coding Competition, I
> suggest they are changed to limit the number of emails; or blogs/list
> announcements/banners on maemo.org are used to inform people of it.
>
> When I worked in corporate communications, everyone thought their
> particular topic was the single most important thing... <clarkson>in
> the world</clarkson> and wanted it emailed to everyone. This is not
> one of those situations (and the situations in which all maemo.org
> account holders would be emailed seem limited to things like security
> issues with the accounts database, or the future of the site).
>
> Hope that helps,
>
> Andrew
>
> --
> Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/
>

Or better yet: with a number of forum posts. How about 10?
How many emails we'd have to send then?

2011/11/8 Cosimo Kroll <zehjotkah@googlemail.com>

> According to the rules [1] only users of maemo.org who are registered at
> the time of voting for at least four months are entitled to vote.
>
> We could specify more filters, like user with over {amount} of karma are
> invited to vote.
>
> [1] http://wiki.maemo.org/MeeGo_Coding_Competition_2011#Rules
>
>
>
> 2011/11/8 Andrew Flegg <andrew@bleb.org>
>
>> On 8 November 2011 10:22, Ferenc Szekely <ferenc@maemo.org> wrote:
>> >
>> > The 2011 coding competition now requires us to send a
>> > minimum amount of ~57000 emails (which is already a lot).
>>
>> I saw zehjotkah's tweet; it does seem like a crazy number of emails.
>> Is it being proposed - by the Coding Competition - that *anyone* with
>> a maemo.org account will be invited to vote?
>>
>> Lots of people have created them, but aren't really part of the
>> "community". If those are the rules of the Coding Competition, I
>> suggest they are changed to limit the number of emails; or blogs/list
>> announcements/banners on maemo.org are used to inform people of it.
>>
>> When I worked in corporate communications, everyone thought their
>> particular topic was the single most important thing... <clarkson>in
>> the world</clarkson> and wanted it emailed to everyone. This is not
>> one of those situations (and the situations in which all maemo.org
>> account holders would be emailed seem limited to things like security
>> issues with the accounts database, or the future of the site).
>>
>> Hope that helps,
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>> --
>> Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/
>>
>
>

I'll quote Pelagos question from the forum:

"It would be interesting if they could give figures on how the number
varies with different karma thresholds, and if they could say at which
number of users they are happy emailing (e.g. are they happy when the
number goes below 10,000, below 5,000, or what, and what karma threshold
does this correspond to)."



2011/11/8 Cosimo Kroll <zehjotkah@googlemail.com>

> Or better yet: with a number of forum posts. How about 10?
> How many emails we'd have to send then?
>
>
> 2011/11/8 Cosimo Kroll <zehjotkah@googlemail.com>
>
>> According to the rules [1] only users of maemo.org who are registered at
>> the time of voting for at least four months are entitled to vote.
>>
>> We could specify more filters, like user with over {amount} of karma are
>> invited to vote.
>>
>> [1] http://wiki.maemo.org/MeeGo_Coding_Competition_2011#Rules
>>
>>
>>
>> 2011/11/8 Andrew Flegg <andrew@bleb.org>
>>
>>> On 8 November 2011 10:22, Ferenc Szekely <ferenc@maemo.org> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > The 2011 coding competition now requires us to send a
>>> > minimum amount of ~57000 emails (which is already a lot).
>>>
>>> I saw zehjotkah's tweet; it does seem like a crazy number of emails.
>>> Is it being proposed - by the Coding Competition - that *anyone* with
>>> a maemo.org account will be invited to vote?
>>>
>>> Lots of people have created them, but aren't really part of the
>>> "community". If those are the rules of the Coding Competition, I
>>> suggest they are changed to limit the number of emails; or blogs/list
>>> announcements/banners on maemo.org are used to inform people of it.
>>>
>>> When I worked in corporate communications, everyone thought their
>>> particular topic was the single most important thing... <clarkson>in
>>> the world</clarkson> and wanted it emailed to everyone. This is not
>>> one of those situations (and the situations in which all maemo.org
>>> account holders would be emailed seem limited to things like security
>>> issues with the accounts database, or the future of the site).
>>>
>>> Hope that helps,
>>>
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>> --
>>> Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/
>>>
>>
>>
>

On 8 November 2011 11:32, Cosimo Kroll <zehjotkah@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> "It would be interesting if they could give figures on how the number varies
> with different karma thresholds, and if they could say at which number of
> users they are happy emailing (e.g. are they happy when the number goes
> below 10,000, below 5,000, or what, and what karma threshold does this
> correspond to)."

It's not just about the mass of emails being sent out, but the
likelihood of people resenting receiving the email, appreciating the
email or participating in the poll.

57,000 people are *not* going to vote in the Coding Competition. The
question is to find out how to target those who are likely to. High
participation in the forums or rating products is likely to be an
indicator (I would've thought). As is more recent karma (people who
created accounts in 2005 for the 770 may well have fallen by the
way-side).

So, the flip side challenge to you as the Coding Competition
organisers is: who do you expect to participate, and how can that
demographic be identified?

I assume you've got the emails to be sent carefully crafted already,
and are on the wiki for crowdsourcing review? (The other aspect about
mass emailing is ensuring the email itself is as polished as
possible).

Cheers,

Andrew

--
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org  |  http://www.bleb.org/

Just my 2ct (warning: haven't been involved with the discussions and/or
competition):

A few assumptions about the goal of sending the emails and/or using the
"election by tokens":
1. let people know
2. prevent a very very small number of developers from trying to cheat the
system by creating new accounts and voting multiple times.

Is that all necessary? Sure we had a few problems on the last competition
using the forum voting but it mostly just worked.

At this point I think the criteria for who can vote or not should be as
close as possible to "one vote for anybody that has a n900 and has
installed the applications"

The competition has ended so long ago I think it would better to just get
the voting done the simplest way possible (forum?) and move on. Just make
clear the voting rules before starting (no new accounts starting xxxx?;
only people that own n900 can vote, ...) and let the community or a small
committee (council+organizers) have the last work.

Felipe

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 6:54 AM, Andrew Flegg <andrew@bleb.org> wrote:

> On 8 November 2011 11:32, Cosimo Kroll <zehjotkah@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >
> > "It would be interesting if they could give figures on how the number
> varies
> > with different karma thresholds, and if they could say at which number of
> > users they are happy emailing (e.g. are they happy when the number goes
> > below 10,000, below 5,000, or what, and what karma threshold does this
> > correspond to)."
>
> It's not just about the mass of emails being sent out, but the
> likelihood of people resenting receiving the email, appreciating the
> email or participating in the poll.
>
> 57,000 people are *not* going to vote in the Coding Competition. The
> question is to find out how to target those who are likely to. High
> participation in the forums or rating products is likely to be an
> indicator (I would've thought). As is more recent karma (people who
> created accounts in 2005 for the 770 may well have fallen by the
> way-side).
>
> So, the flip side challenge to you as the Coding Competition
> organisers is: who do you expect to participate, and how can that
> demographic be identified?
>
> I assume you've got the emails to be sent carefully crafted already,
> and are on the wiki for crowdsourcing review? (The other aspect about
> mass emailing is ensuring the email itself is as polished as
> possible).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andrew
>
> --
> Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/
>

Ferenc,

Thanks for your message. If staggering the vote is not enough to reduce
server load, please go ahead and use a simple filter based on karma and
length of community membership so that the server load will be manageable.

The other suggestions are appreciated. While there is merit in more
selectively reducing the email recipients to those N900 users most likely
to have tested the submissions, or at least those who are currently active
in the community, as indicated previously, the priority now is to get the
vote completed and those additional factors, even if possible, are likely
to burden and slow the process. Of course, if I am mistaken in this
regard, then Ferenc can point that out.

Rob Bauer (SD69)

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 5:22 AM, Ferenc Szekely <ferenc@maemo.org> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Before the voting part for the 2011 coding competition really gets out
> of hand I decided to check the situation.
>
> For elections in the past we always filtered the number of people who
> were eligible to vote. The filtering was done based on the karma value.
> This filtering ensured that we are not sending out tens of thousands of
> emails in a batch. The 2011 coding competition now requires us to send a
> minimum amount of ~57000 emails (which is already a lot). This number is
> valid only if we change the mailing scripts and send 1 email per person
> for all the 9 categories they can vote for. If we don't change the
> mailing system then it means > 513k emails.
>
> This is not going to happen as long as I am root on the maemo servers.
> We are not going to become a spammer organization no matter what.
>
> I would suggest to revise the plans and take this voting to a web based
> system.
>
> ferenc
> --
> maemo.org sysadmin, developer
> email: ferenc@maemo.org
>
> [1] http://wiki.maemo.org/MeeGo_Coding_Competition_2011
>

Hello,

On 11/08/2011 03:28 PM, robert bauer wrote:
> Ferenc,
>
> Thanks for your message. If staggering the vote is not enough to reduce
> server load, please go ahead and use a simple filter based on karma and
> length of community membership so that the server load will be manageable.
>
Our community has 660 people with karma >= 100. That's a lot less than
57000. Tuning the mailing script (ie. 1 email per person) should not be
a big deal, though I have not looked that part yet.

> The other suggestions are appreciated. While there is merit in more
> selectively reducing the email recipients to those N900 users most
> likely to have tested the submissions, or at least those who are
> currently active in the community, as indicated previously, the priority
> now is to get the vote completed and those additional factors, even if
> possible, are likely to burden and slow the process. Of course, if I am
> mistaken in this regard, then Ferenc can point that out.
>
I can change the mailing script if the council agrees to introduce the
karma filter.

> Rob Bauer (SD69)
>
Cheers,
ferenc

ps: http://maemo.org/profile/list/
There are 22 pages exactly that list people having karma >= 100. Each
page has 30 rows.

> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 5:22 AM, Ferenc Szekely <ferenc@maemo.org
> <mailto:ferenc@maemo.org>> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Before the voting part for the 2011 coding competition really gets out
> of hand I decided to check the situation.
>
> For elections in the past we always filtered the number of people who
> were eligible to vote. The filtering was done based on the karma value.
> This filtering ensured that we are not sending out tens of thousands of
> emails in a batch. The 2011 coding competition now requires us to send a
> minimum amount of ~57000 emails (which is already a lot). This number is
> valid only if we change the mailing scripts and send 1 email per person
> for all the 9 categories they can vote for. If we don't change the
> mailing system then it means > 513k emails.
>
> This is not going to happen as long as I am root on the maemo servers.
> We are not going to become a spammer organization no matter what.
>
> I would suggest to revise the plans and take this voting to a web based
> system.
>
> ferenc
> --
> maemo.org <http://maemo.org> sysadmin, developer
> email: ferenc@maemo.org <mailto:ferenc@maemo.org>
>
> [1] http://wiki.maemo.org/MeeGo_Coding_Competition_2011
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-community mailing list
> maemo-community@maemo.org <mailto:maemo-community@maemo.org>
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community
>
>
>
>


--
maemo.org sysadmin, developer
email: ferenc@maemo.org

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Ferenc Szekely <ferenc@maemo.org> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> On 11/08/2011 03:28 PM, robert bauer wrote:
> > Ferenc,
> >
> > Thanks for your message. If staggering the vote is not enough to reduce
> > server load, please go ahead and use a simple filter based on karma and
> > length of community membership so that the server load will be
> manageable.
> >
> Our community has 660 people with karma >= 100. That's a lot less than
> 57000. Tuning the mailing script (ie. 1 email per person) should not be
> a big deal, though I have not looked that part yet.
>
> > The other suggestions are appreciated. While there is merit in more
> > selectively reducing the email recipients to those N900 users most
> > likely to have tested the submissions, or at least those who are
> > currently active in the community, as indicated previously, the priority
> > now is to get the vote completed and those additional factors, even if
> > possible, are likely to burden and slow the process. Of course, if I am
> > mistaken in this regard, then Ferenc can point that out.
> >
> I can change the mailing script if the council agrees to introduce the
> karma filter.
>
> On behalf of Council, I authorize the karma filter.


> > Rob Bauer (SD69)
> >
> Cheers,
> ferenc
>
> ps: http://maemo.org/profile/list/
> There are 22 pages exactly that list people having karma >= 100. Each
> page has 30 rows.
>
> > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 5:22 AM, Ferenc Szekely <ferenc@maemo.org
> > <mailto:ferenc@maemo.org>> wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Before the voting part for the 2011 coding competition really gets
> out
> > of hand I decided to check the situation.
> >
> > For elections in the past we always filtered the number of people who
> > were eligible to vote. The filtering was done based on the karma
> value.
> > This filtering ensured that we are not sending out tens of thousands
> of
> > emails in a batch. The 2011 coding competition now requires us to
> send a
> > minimum amount of ~57000 emails (which is already a lot). This
> number is
> > valid only if we change the mailing scripts and send 1 email per
> person
> > for all the 9 categories they can vote for. If we don't change the
> > mailing system then it means > 513k emails.
> >
> > This is not going to happen as long as I am root on the maemo
> servers.
> > We are not going to become a spammer organization no matter what.
> >
> > I would suggest to revise the plans and take this voting to a web
> based
> > system.
> >
> > ferenc
> > --
> > maemo.org <http://maemo.org> sysadmin, developer
> > email: ferenc@maemo.org <mailto:ferenc@maemo.org>
> >
> > [1] http://wiki.maemo.org/MeeGo_Coding_Competition_2011
> > _______________________________________________
> > maemo-community mailing list
> > maemo-community@maemo.org <mailto:maemo-community@maemo.org>
> > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > maemo-community mailing list
> > maemo-community@maemo.org
> > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community
>
>
> --
> maemo.org sysadmin, developer
> email: ferenc@maemo.org
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-community mailing list
> maemo-community@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community
>