Brainstorm meeting - minutes, decisions, food for thought
Brainstorm meeting - minutes, decisions, food for thought
Re: Brainstorm meeting - minutes, decisions, food for thought
2010-06-05 06:51 UTC
On 4 June 2010 10:29, Dave Neary <dneary@maemo.org> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> On Wednesday, we held a follow-up IRC meeting around the Maemo
> Brainstorm that ran for a couple of weeks (mostly in Talk):
>
> These are the minutes.
>
> On a personal note, I was disappointed that more people were not present
> to force the agenda for maemo.org, in spite of being very vocal on Talk
> (and in general) about the future of Maemo. As you can see from the
> minutes, there was only one person who made one comment outside of the
> paid staff, Tero and Daniel from Nokia, and GA (who was the only member
> of the council who was there).
>
> The meeting felt very much like the sprint meetings - the Maemo staff
> setting their own agenda, hoping that we're doing what people want.
>
> This is your chance to help decide what Maemo will look like in 6 months
> time, please take some time to review, and if there are obviously
> important things you want to see done, shout now.
>
>
Thanks Dave,
and thanks to everyone there,
the fact that we, the community (a part from General) were not there,
doesn't mean, at least for me, that I am not following or caring about the
Maemo fate.
Little consolation, but that's all i can give you.
>
> wiki
>
> * Get rid of (or at least hide better) documentation for Maemo versions <=
> 4
>
Well I'd keep it on par with Maemo > 4 documentation, but make clear it is
for earlier Maemo version.
I am sure very few developers will need it, but there still will be.
To support this, I will try to port my app to earlier version of Maemo,
having a clear path to it wouldn't distrupt much, isn't it?
--
anidel
> Hi all,
>
> On Wednesday, we held a follow-up IRC meeting around the Maemo
> Brainstorm that ran for a couple of weeks (mostly in Talk):
>
> These are the minutes.
>
> On a personal note, I was disappointed that more people were not present
> to force the agenda for maemo.org, in spite of being very vocal on Talk
> (and in general) about the future of Maemo. As you can see from the
> minutes, there was only one person who made one comment outside of the
> paid staff, Tero and Daniel from Nokia, and GA (who was the only member
> of the council who was there).
>
> The meeting felt very much like the sprint meetings - the Maemo staff
> setting their own agenda, hoping that we're doing what people want.
>
> This is your chance to help decide what Maemo will look like in 6 months
> time, please take some time to review, and if there are obviously
> important things you want to see done, shout now.
>
>
Thanks Dave,
and thanks to everyone there,
the fact that we, the community (a part from General) were not there,
doesn't mean, at least for me, that I am not following or caring about the
Maemo fate.
Little consolation, but that's all i can give you.
>
> wiki
>
> * Get rid of (or at least hide better) documentation for Maemo versions <=
> 4
>
Well I'd keep it on par with Maemo > 4 documentation, but make clear it is
for earlier Maemo version.
I am sure very few developers will need it, but there still will be.
To support this, I will try to port my app to earlier version of Maemo,
having a clear path to it wouldn't distrupt much, isn't it?
--
anidel
Re: Brainstorm meeting - minutes, decisions, food for thought
2010-06-21 20:36 UTC
On Fri, Jun 4, 2010 at 18:29, Dave Neary <dneary@maemo.org> wrote:
>
> On Wednesday, we held a follow-up IRC meeting around the Maemo
> Brainstorm that ran for a couple of weeks (mostly in Talk).
>
> On a personal note, I was disappointed that more people were not present
> to force the agenda for maemo.org, in spite of being very vocal on Talk
> (and in general) about the future of Maemo.
As I was on holiday, how widely publicised was the meeting? I didn't
see a council blog post advertising it, nor do I see an official blog
post containing these minutes. How much lead time was there? Were the
wiki pages being updated as people came up with ideas?
> Agreement that the main goal is to focus on things which can provide
> long-term support for existing Maemo users, given that there will be
> no official Nokia release of MeeGo for N900.
I know I didn't get buy in for the suggestion of clearer
communication, but it's now been over two weeks since this
prioritisation meeting.
Can we see, please, from the people who committed to the tasks:
1) When each of their tasks is expected to be completed.
2) A series of milestones from now until that ETA.
3) What areas other people can participate and assist in.
4) What dependencies there are on the tasks (servers,
people, processes etc)
A summary of the tasks from the meeting:
Overall (Tero or Niels?)
* SSO for all maemo.org services (main site, wiki, bugzilla, talk)
Garage (Ferenc?)
* Align with MeeGo
* Provide migration path
Packages and downloads (Niels?)
* OBS
* Move Downloads on top of Packages
* Release Maemo appinstaller as replacement for HAM which
is more integrated with infrastructure.
* Provide donation framework
Bugzilla (Andre or Karsten?)
* Upgrade to Bugzilla 3.4
* Triage all the PR 1.2 related bugs coming in
wiki (Dave?)
* Categorise by OS
* Tidy up (emphasise current versions; de-duplication)
* Talk -> Wiki process
* Collect Maemo 5 Use cases
Planet & News (bergie?)
* View comments (expandable) in Planet
* Include tweets/identica/qaiku in social news
> Basically no suggestions for news & planet outside of planned Nemein work
This planned Nemein work should also be on this roadmap for visibility purposes.
Talk (Reggie)
* Improve content tools (RSS feeds, changing subjects)
* Email <-> forum bridge
Thanks in advance,
Andrew
--
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/
Maemo Community Council chair
>
> On Wednesday, we held a follow-up IRC meeting around the Maemo
> Brainstorm that ran for a couple of weeks (mostly in Talk).
>
> On a personal note, I was disappointed that more people were not present
> to force the agenda for maemo.org, in spite of being very vocal on Talk
> (and in general) about the future of Maemo.
As I was on holiday, how widely publicised was the meeting? I didn't
see a council blog post advertising it, nor do I see an official blog
post containing these minutes. How much lead time was there? Were the
wiki pages being updated as people came up with ideas?
> Agreement that the main goal is to focus on things which can provide
> long-term support for existing Maemo users, given that there will be
> no official Nokia release of MeeGo for N900.
I know I didn't get buy in for the suggestion of clearer
communication, but it's now been over two weeks since this
prioritisation meeting.
Can we see, please, from the people who committed to the tasks:
1) When each of their tasks is expected to be completed.
2) A series of milestones from now until that ETA.
3) What areas other people can participate and assist in.
4) What dependencies there are on the tasks (servers,
people, processes etc)
A summary of the tasks from the meeting:
Overall (Tero or Niels?)
* SSO for all maemo.org services (main site, wiki, bugzilla, talk)
Garage (Ferenc?)
* Align with MeeGo
* Provide migration path
Packages and downloads (Niels?)
* OBS
* Move Downloads on top of Packages
* Release Maemo appinstaller as replacement for HAM which
is more integrated with infrastructure.
* Provide donation framework
Bugzilla (Andre or Karsten?)
* Upgrade to Bugzilla 3.4
* Triage all the PR 1.2 related bugs coming in
wiki (Dave?)
* Categorise by OS
* Tidy up (emphasise current versions; de-duplication)
* Talk -> Wiki process
* Collect Maemo 5 Use cases
Planet & News (bergie?)
* View comments (expandable) in Planet
* Include tweets/identica/qaiku in social news
> Basically no suggestions for news & planet outside of planned Nemein work
This planned Nemein work should also be on this roadmap for visibility purposes.
Talk (Reggie)
* Improve content tools (RSS feeds, changing subjects)
* Email <-> forum bridge
Thanks in advance,
Andrew
--
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/
Maemo Community Council chair
Re: Brainstorm meeting - minutes, decisions, food for thought
2010-06-25 09:55 UTC
Hi,
First, thanks for following up on this.
Andrew Flegg wrote:
> As I was on holiday, how widely publicised was the meeting?
Both Talk and mailing list notice of meeting, 2 days before. We did run
into our usual meeting problem - the Finnish offices tend to start
emptying around 4pm local time, which is 3pm French time, 2pm Irish
time, 9am Eastern US, and 6am Western US. Niels recommends that if we
want buy-in from Finnish attendees, we shuold hold the meetings at 10am
Finish time (which is bed-time for the US). I don't know how we can
solve this issue, aside from asking Finns to stay late, or ask others to
get into work early or get up in the middle of the night.
> I didn't see a council blog post advertising it, nor do I see an official blog
> post containing these minutes. How much lead time was there? Were the
> wiki pages being updated as people came up with ideas?
I updated most of the wiki pages a few days before, and the rest before
the meeting.
> I know I didn't get buy in for the suggestion of clearer
> communication, but it's now been over two weeks since this
> prioritisation meeting.
Actually, let me quote directly from the meeting about that:
Jun 02 15:01:29 <dneary> "Community workings" -> what isn't
working about the way we work, and how to fix it
Jun 02 15:01:45 <dneary> A rich topic, with lots to say, and a
hard one to resolve
Jun 02 15:02:07 <X-Fade> dneary: Plan a meeting separately for
that topic?
Jun 02 15:02:19 <dneary> Sure, but who'd turn up? ;)
There is agreement that the way the Maemo project works is not optimal,
and we need to address it.
It seems clear having a sprint meeting to address it isn't the answer :)
> Can we see, please, from the people who committed to the tasks:
>
> 1) When each of their tasks is expected to be completed.
> 2) A series of milestones from now until that ETA.
> 3) What areas other people can participate and assist in.
> 4) What dependencies there are on the tasks (servers,
> people, processes etc)
For my part:
> wiki (Dave?)
> * Categorise by OS
> * Tidy up (emphasise current versions; de-duplication)
> * Talk -> Wiki process
> * Collect Maemo 5 Use cases
* Categorise pages by OS
-> There are 1165 content pages in the Maemo wiki now
-> For each page, need to ensure that the categories are set for the OS
version which applies.
-> Many pages document what to do for several versions. This is fine -
label the page with several categories.
* Tidy up
-> Once pages are in the right category, portal pages which isolate
pages which apply only to older versions and a reduction in the number
of links to pages which only apply to older OS versions should improve
things overall for webpage indexing of newer content.
-> "De-duplication" is really BAU. When we see several pages with
similar information, we merge & edit them. There are a number of
redundant/overlapping pages which are quite tricky to merge.
-> Want to make sure that the "edit new page" page first checks for
similar pages to reduce creation of duplicate pages
* Talk->Wiki process
-> Want to have a "wikify this" button for individual talk entries that
people can add as a wiki page. Combine with the modifications to the
edit page to help keep things tidy, but we will also likely need a
growing wiki editor team to handle the influx of new content.
* Maemo 5 use-cases
-> Didn't really get much response when launched, I'd like to re-launch
this effort and try to build up a set of code samples to solve real
problems before Maemo 5 gets superceded by Harmattan.
As you can see, apart from one or two things which require access to
infrastructure, anyone can help with any of these tasks, and I would
really like to see that happen. There are no major dependencies - except
the "wikify this post" button will need some changes to Talk (and there
was some disagreement on whether it would be useful).
> Planet & News (bergie?)
> * View comments (expandable) in Planet
> * Include tweets/identica/qaiku in social news
>
>> Basically no suggestions for news & planet outside of planned Nemein work
>
> This planned Nemein work should also be on this roadmap for visibility purposes.
Yes, the two bullet points are higher level tasks which bergie proposed.
Cheers,
Dave.
--
maemo.org docsmaster
Email: dneary@maemo.org
Jabber: bolsh@jabber.org
First, thanks for following up on this.
Andrew Flegg wrote:
> As I was on holiday, how widely publicised was the meeting?
Both Talk and mailing list notice of meeting, 2 days before. We did run
into our usual meeting problem - the Finnish offices tend to start
emptying around 4pm local time, which is 3pm French time, 2pm Irish
time, 9am Eastern US, and 6am Western US. Niels recommends that if we
want buy-in from Finnish attendees, we shuold hold the meetings at 10am
Finish time (which is bed-time for the US). I don't know how we can
solve this issue, aside from asking Finns to stay late, or ask others to
get into work early or get up in the middle of the night.
> I didn't see a council blog post advertising it, nor do I see an official blog
> post containing these minutes. How much lead time was there? Were the
> wiki pages being updated as people came up with ideas?
I updated most of the wiki pages a few days before, and the rest before
the meeting.
> I know I didn't get buy in for the suggestion of clearer
> communication, but it's now been over two weeks since this
> prioritisation meeting.
Actually, let me quote directly from the meeting about that:
Jun 02 15:01:29 <dneary> "Community workings" -> what isn't
working about the way we work, and how to fix it
Jun 02 15:01:45 <dneary> A rich topic, with lots to say, and a
hard one to resolve
Jun 02 15:02:07 <X-Fade> dneary: Plan a meeting separately for
that topic?
Jun 02 15:02:19 <dneary> Sure, but who'd turn up? ;)
There is agreement that the way the Maemo project works is not optimal,
and we need to address it.
It seems clear having a sprint meeting to address it isn't the answer :)
> Can we see, please, from the people who committed to the tasks:
>
> 1) When each of their tasks is expected to be completed.
> 2) A series of milestones from now until that ETA.
> 3) What areas other people can participate and assist in.
> 4) What dependencies there are on the tasks (servers,
> people, processes etc)
For my part:
> wiki (Dave?)
> * Categorise by OS
> * Tidy up (emphasise current versions; de-duplication)
> * Talk -> Wiki process
> * Collect Maemo 5 Use cases
* Categorise pages by OS
-> There are 1165 content pages in the Maemo wiki now
-> For each page, need to ensure that the categories are set for the OS
version which applies.
-> Many pages document what to do for several versions. This is fine -
label the page with several categories.
* Tidy up
-> Once pages are in the right category, portal pages which isolate
pages which apply only to older versions and a reduction in the number
of links to pages which only apply to older OS versions should improve
things overall for webpage indexing of newer content.
-> "De-duplication" is really BAU. When we see several pages with
similar information, we merge & edit them. There are a number of
redundant/overlapping pages which are quite tricky to merge.
-> Want to make sure that the "edit new page" page first checks for
similar pages to reduce creation of duplicate pages
* Talk->Wiki process
-> Want to have a "wikify this" button for individual talk entries that
people can add as a wiki page. Combine with the modifications to the
edit page to help keep things tidy, but we will also likely need a
growing wiki editor team to handle the influx of new content.
* Maemo 5 use-cases
-> Didn't really get much response when launched, I'd like to re-launch
this effort and try to build up a set of code samples to solve real
problems before Maemo 5 gets superceded by Harmattan.
As you can see, apart from one or two things which require access to
infrastructure, anyone can help with any of these tasks, and I would
really like to see that happen. There are no major dependencies - except
the "wikify this post" button will need some changes to Talk (and there
was some disagreement on whether it would be useful).
> Planet & News (bergie?)
> * View comments (expandable) in Planet
> * Include tweets/identica/qaiku in social news
>
>> Basically no suggestions for news & planet outside of planned Nemein work
>
> This planned Nemein work should also be on this roadmap for visibility purposes.
Yes, the two bullet points are higher level tasks which bergie proposed.
Cheers,
Dave.
--
maemo.org docsmaster
Email: dneary@maemo.org
Jabber: bolsh@jabber.org
Re: Brainstorm meeting - minutes, decisions, food for thought
2010-07-05 18:15 UTC
Am Montag, den 21.06.2010, 21:36 +0100 schrieb Andrew Flegg:
> Can we see, please, from the people who committed to the tasks:
>
> 1) When each of their tasks is expected to be completed.
> 2) A series of milestones from now until that ETA.
> 3) What areas other people can participate and assist in.
> 4) What dependencies there are on the tasks (servers,
> people, processes etc)
>
> A summary of the tasks from the meeting:
[...]
> Bugzilla (Andre or Karsten?)
> * Upgrade to Bugzilla 3.4
I'll leave answering that one to Karsten.
> * Triage all the PR 1.2 related bugs coming in
Mostly done - not all of them, but the most important ones have been
triaged.
andre
--
Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster)
> Can we see, please, from the people who committed to the tasks:
>
> 1) When each of their tasks is expected to be completed.
> 2) A series of milestones from now until that ETA.
> 3) What areas other people can participate and assist in.
> 4) What dependencies there are on the tasks (servers,
> people, processes etc)
>
> A summary of the tasks from the meeting:
[...]
> Bugzilla (Andre or Karsten?)
> * Upgrade to Bugzilla 3.4
I'll leave answering that one to Karsten.
> * Triage all the PR 1.2 related bugs coming in
Mostly done - not all of them, but the most important ones have been
triaged.
andre
--
Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster)
On Wednesday, we held a follow-up IRC meeting around the Maemo
Brainstorm that ran for a couple of weeks (mostly in Talk):
These are the minutes.
On a personal note, I was disappointed that more people were not present
to force the agenda for maemo.org, in spite of being very vocal on Talk
(and in general) about the future of Maemo. As you can see from the
minutes, there was only one person who made one comment outside of the
paid staff, Tero and Daniel from Nokia, and GA (who was the only member
of the council who was there).
The meeting felt very much like the sprint meetings - the Maemo staff
setting their own agenda, hoping that we're doing what people want.
This is your chance to help decide what Maemo will look like in 6 months
time, please take some time to review, and if there are obviously
important things you want to see done, shout now.
* Maemo Brainstorm Meeting Minutes *
Contributors (alphabetical order, with number of comments in-channel):
andre__ (12)
bergie (76)
danielwilms (10)
dneary (136)
ferenc (22)
GAN900/GeneralAntilles (74)
JimiDini (1)
tekojo (1)
X-Fade (68)
Chair: GeneralAntilles (until 0:46)/dneary (from 0:46 to 2:04)
Agenda:
1. Review feedback from brainstorm
2. Identify top priorities based on the feedback
Reminder of brainstorm categories:
1. Downloads
2. Packages
3. Wiki
4. Talk & Mailing lists
5. Bugzilla
6. Planet & News
7. Garage & Developer Services
8. Community workings
Agreement that the main goal is to focus on things which can provide
long-term
support for existing Maemo users, given that there will be no official
Nokia
release of MeeGo for N900.
Here are the general top priorities we agreed in the meeting (subject,
of course,
to discussion in case there is violent disagreement):
Overall priority for maemo.org:
* SSO for all maemo.org services (main site, wiki, bugzilla, talk)
1) CAS and the user directory service up
2) Midgard talking with CAS
3) MediaWiki talking with CAS
etc
Garage
* Propose putting it into maintenance mode
* Disable project registration once similar services exist for MeeGo and
align with them
* Could shut down Garage Bugtracker & send everyone to Bugzilla
* Same for mailing lists - everyone to Mailman
* Shutting it down would require providing a migration path to gitorious
(or similar services)
Packages and downloads
* Switch from autobuilder to OBS
* Move Downloads web interface on top of Packages
* Release the Maemo app installer
* Enable donations through Downloads pages of applications
Bugzilla
* Upgrade to Bugzilla 3.4
* Triage all the PR 1.2 related bugs coming in
wiki
* Version wiki pages with categories according to which devices/OS
version they apply to
* Get rid of (or at least hide better) documentation for Maemo versions <= 4
* Infrastructure to allow easy wikification of individual Talk posts
* Collect Maemo 5 Use cases
* Improve search and identification of related pages for Wiki to reduce
overlap
Planet & News:
* View comments (expandable) in Planet
* Include tweets/identica/qaiku in social news
Basically no suggestions for news & planet outside of planned Nemein work
Talk:
* Allow thread creators to change subject line
* Enable email to forum bridge
* Add RSS feeds of posts per thread, and per forum (currently the RSS
feed is "new threads in forum")
No suggestions for mailing lists
Community workings:
The topic was deferred, because the meeting ran long, and there were not
many people there to discuss it.
Cheers,
Dave.
--
maemo.org docsmaster
Email: dneary@maemo.org
Jabber: bolsh@jabber.org