On the problem of Nokia bugs substituting changelogs

On Tue, 2008-09-02 at 17:16 +0200, Andre Klapper wrote:
> Am Dienstag, den 02.09.2008, 16:41 +0300 schrieb
> Dirk-Jan.Binnema@nokia.com:
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Dave Neary [mailto:nearyd@gmail.com] On Behalf Of ext Dave Neary
> > > Dirk-Jan.Binnema@nokia.com wrote:
> > > Would it be possible for the Modest team to exclusively use
> > > the external bugzilla, given that it's a free software project?
> >
> > It would be very nice from the community perspective, very much so,
> > and of course it would make open development much easier as well.
> >
> > But, internally, the development process is highly regulated, and tools
> > like bugzilla play different roles than they do outside -- trust me
> > on that one. Modest has to satisfy both of its natures, with
> > the internal one getting the most emphasis, for very pedestrian
> > reasons...
> >
> > So, while I agree that it would be nice to have one open bugzilla,
> > I do not see that happening anytime soon.
>
> I also do not see this happening very soon, but it is definitely a
> long-term target of mine.
> Developers want one central place to track software issues.
> This currently is Nokia's internal bug tracker, this should become
> bugs.maemo.org for Maemo open source projects.

I'm not confident that this will happen even for open source parts
because the work on open source parts is often secret. Nokia are just
too afraid of leaking future product features and schedules. But maybe
you can persuade them to do this for _some_ modules, such as GTK+, if
not for others, such as hildon-libs.

I don't speak for Nokia, of course.

But that shouldn't be a blocker to getting some human-readable text for
release notes or NEWS files (ChangeLogs are something else,
traditionally). Once a release is published, I don't see how Nokia could
object to publishing the changes. Hopefully Andre can be the guy to
extract the bug titles for those internal bug numbers. It might would
need advance planning.

> The task is to work out those issues that currently block managing
> Modest, MicroB, etc. completely in public and find solutions for each
> issue, most probably quite often with the input of lawyers, sigh...
> So adopting/using Nokia's current internal processes and workflows in
> public (bugs.maemo.org) requires having a policy about those pieces of
> information that a commercial company does not want to be accessed by
> its competitors, such as policy plans, product and hardware information,
> information about the internal testing infrastructure or especially
> copyright related issues.
>
> (Half of this email copied from a blog entry I was just writing on.)
>
> andre
--
murrayc@murrayc.com
www.murrayc.com
www.openismus.com

Frantisek Dufka wrote:

> So will we get updated SDK release with sources for latest Diablo update
> (and any further one too)?

No answer, looks like people responsible are busy with more important
stuff. Just an additional info - old SDK also hurts people when doing
development directly on tablet, see this one
http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=220639#post220639

The 4.2008.30-2 update was released 08-11-2008 so it is more than 3
weeks now.

> Also can this whole firmware and SDK release procedure be changed so
> building and releasing sources is integral part of building and
> releasing any binary (firmware or SSU) as it is 'suggested' by GPL licence?

Does it make sense to report this as separate bug in bugzilla? Or is it
in wiki 2010/100days agenda somewhere?

Frantisek

Hi.
I opened the last week the bug 3648 about this problem. There is a
comment explaining why the sources aren't in the repository yet.

Sorry for the top posting, I am writing this in a small mobile client.

2008/9/4, Frantisek Dufka <dufkaf@seznam.cz>:
> Frantisek Dufka wrote:
>
>> So will we get updated SDK release with sources for latest Diablo update
>> (and any further one too)?
>
> No answer, looks like people responsible are busy with more important
> stuff. Just an additional info - old SDK also hurts people when doing
> development directly on tablet, see this one
> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=220639#post220639
>
> The 4.2008.30-2 update was released 08-11-2008 so it is more than 3
> weeks now.
>
>> Also can this whole firmware and SDK release procedure be changed so
>> building and releasing sources is integral part of building and
>> releasing any binary (firmware or SSU) as it is 'suggested' by GPL
>> licence?
>
> Does it make sense to report this as separate bug in bugzilla? Or is it
> in wiki 2010/100days agenda somewhere?
>
> Frantisek
>


--
Daniel Martín Yerga
http://yerga.net

Hi there,

ext Frantisek Dufka wrote:
> Frantisek Dufka wrote:
>
>> So will we get updated SDK release with sources for latest Diablo
>> update (and any further one too)?
>
> No answer, looks like people responsible are busy with more important
> stuff.

http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1/free/k/kernel-source-diablo/

Sorry for the delay. People responsible were waiting for some events
needed to publish the sources. Now they are available. The _only_
difference is the WiMAX related code that is not used by the devices all
you have.


> Just an additional info - old SDK also hurts people when doing
> development directly on tablet, see this one
> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=220639#post220639

(It is discouraged to install SDK packages in the devices. If someone
wants to do this fine but as the own post you link says it might be
*hazardous*.

> The 4.2008.30-2 update was released 08-11-2008 so it is more than 3
> weeks now.
>
>> Also can this whole firmware and SDK release procedure be changed so
>> building and releasing sources is integral part of building and
>> releasing any binary (firmware or SSU) as it is 'suggested' by GPL
>> licence?

This is how the process works. This time there was one exception because
the mentioned events related to this WiMAX code - see also
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3648#c3

Our apologies and hopefully this won't happen again.

--
Quim Gil
marketing manager, open source
Maemo Software @ Nokia

Quim Gil wrote:
> (It is discouraged to install SDK packages in the devices. If someone
> wants to do this fine but as the own post you link says it might be
> *hazardous*.

OK. We are also discouraged from having root access on the device ;-)
The hazardous part here was mainly installing old packages to new system
because of old -dev packages in current SDK. Otherwise having SDK
repository configured on device is pretty sensible thing to do for any
competent developer just like root access (discouraged or not).


> This is how the process works. This time there was one exception because
> the mentioned events related to this WiMAX code - see also
> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3648#c3
>
> Our apologies and hopefully this won't happen again.
>

Thank you and apology for missing bug 3648. I should better check
bugzilla next time. Sorry for creating too much noise too late.

Frantisek