N9 device seeding activity

Re: N9 device seeding activity

Quim Gil
Karma: 2661
2012-04-19 20:02 UTC
On 04/19/2012 11:53 AM, ext Tim Samoff wrote:
> Hi,
>
> In playing Devil's Advocate, though...

Fair enough. :) Let's see.

>
> What will this actually do for Maemo or Meego or Meego Harmattan or
> Nokia...?
>
> I think it's an amazing gesture that will most likely spawn a number of
> community efforts (which is a good thing), but what's the ultimate point
> of the offering?

The two points stated in my first email? More and better Qt 4 mobile
apps and a first wave of mobile developers trying to compile their apps
to Qt 5 and see what happens. More apps for current Qt 5 users and
better quality for the Qt 5 libraries.

Honestly, why is it bad to have ad-hoc action driven by a couple of
tangible short term goals, executed in a couple of months? Followed by a
review after the Summer to see what people actually did and how useful
the activity actually was.


> Will Nokia see a bunch of impassioned developers and change their
> decisions about the future of Meego Harmattan?

Do we need to turn every community activity in a tech blog post
discussion? :) A N9 device seeding program can focus on the N9 users
out there using the SDK and the store(s) for the N9.

If someone wants to play wider there are other Qt friendly platforms
around. If someone want to play further there is bleeding edge Qt 5.

If someone wants to simply argue or rant about then s/he is free not
joining the program and put the energies in some TMO threads, elsewhere
or nowhere.

The alternative is not doing this program - which I have exposed in my
first mail.


> I understand the impetus to get people developing with Qt5, etc., but
> will these devices actually do that? Or, will they just get people to
> stick with the Meego Harmattan platform and not think of the future?

The little I have learned about software development is that it is one
of the best activities to think about the future. :)

Honestly, if you want to be fit for Qt 5 the best you can do is to be
fit for Qt 4 mobile (Qt Quick / Qt WebKit).


> Qt5+ is, of course, the goal of something like this -- and it helps that
> it's cross-platform -- but what are your device recipients actually
> going to do with their devices? Will they really go whole hog into Qt
> development?

I hope so. This is not a discount shop.

> Remember, I'm playing Devil's Advocate here... Personally, I really like
> the idea -- as ideas like this have always reinvigorated the community.
> But, is it something that will benefit our community in the long-run?

We are getting philosophical here, but my take in long term strategy is
that a succession of short term successes should lead to a long term
success. There must be other ways but I'd rather have fun with this
approach. Anyway, this is an open community so probably the only real
strategic approach.


> Here's what I would like to see come from something like this:
>
> A certain (large) percentage of community developers become really good
> Qt developers and stop harping on what Maemo/Meego is/was. If this
> doesn't happen, then I think that the offering should be considered a
> failure.

"Now you're talking!" - said the Qt Project guy.


> We don't need more people putting effort into prolonging Maemo/Meego. We
> need people who are willing to put time and effort into forging a future
> for the community, be it linux mobile, or something else.

A future... and a present!

> Yes, I've been ranting a lot lately -- apologies. It's been quite a
> strange experience to see the Maemo community going through what it's
> going through right now... Déjà vu. What I'd really like to see is a new
> direction with new prospects and new community members.
>
> Something like what Quim is suggesting could help. But, it could also
> hinder.

PS: that was my dose of debating with devil's advocates - and only
because I owe a beer or two to Tim. There are many re-run rants that can
come in relation to this program but I'm not planning to engage in any
of those - unless it is a new argument worth addressing. That is why I
started asking whether you want this program or not. If you want it then
it's your program. Nokia will fund the devices and their distribution.

--
Quim
  •  Reply

Re: N9 device seeding activity

Quim Gil
Karma: 2661
2012-04-19 20:10 UTC
TO EVERYBODY SENDING ME PRIVATE EMAILS ASKING FOR A DEVICE:

Don't do it. I have answered the first 3 (pointing them to this thread)
and I will delete the rest.

You can wait or contribute to the current discussion and you can apply
whenever there is a process to do it.

If you are good in Qt development you can also try via
http://qt.nokia.com/qt-in-use/ambassadors/qtambassador/ , a program that
doesn't have contests or deadlines and has already a form to apply.

On 04/19/2012 11:31 AM, ext Benoît HERVIER wrote:

> Of course, it s should take care of previous distributed devices to not
> distribute a second one to the same people.

Ultimately the distribution of devices will be done using the same
backend used for the N950 device program. Still someone could trick it,
I'm sure, but really exposing him/herself to a negative and a lot of
public shame.

In fact I was thinking of pinging those who got an N950 last Summer,
asking them for the links to their apps. And in fact this time we should
organize an informal review after the Summer to see what apps and other
results we have got thank to this activity. This will help new seeding
programs like this one, and will help those developers actually
delivering on their own plans.

--
Quim
  •  Reply

Re: N9 device seeding activity

RM Bauer
Karma: 554
2012-04-19 23:14 UTC
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Quim Gil <quim.gil@nokia.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Let's say we could have a nice amount of N9s (*) for a maemo.org centered
> device seeding activity.
>
> What do you think?
>
> We'll use them at least for this year's Coding Competition. I hope you
remember this activity. We already started thinking about including Qt in
the competition this year. Please review the last few pages of this
thread<http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71561>

Rob

  •  Reply

Re: N9 device seeding activity

RM Bauer
Karma: 554
2012-04-20 02:07 UTC
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 2:53 PM, Tim Samoff <tim@samoff.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> In playing Devil's Advocate, though...
>
> What will this actually do for Maemo or Meego or Meego Harmattan or
> Nokia...?
>
> I think it's an amazing gesture that will most likely spawn a number of
> community efforts (which is a good thing), but what's the ultimate point
> of the offering?
>
> Will Nokia see a bunch of impassioned developers and change their
> decisions about the future of Meego Harmattan?
>
> I understand the impetus to get people developing with Qt5, etc., but
> will these devices actually do that? Or, will they just get people to
> stick with the Meego Harmattan platform and not think of the future?
>
> Qt5+ is, of course, the goal of something like this -- and it helps that
> it's cross-platform -- but what are your device recipients actually
> going to do with their devices? Will they really go whole hog into Qt
> development?
>
> Remember, I'm playing Devil's Advocate here... Personally, I really like
> the idea -- as ideas like this have always reinvigorated the community.
> But, is it something that will benefit our community in the long-run?
>
> Here's what I would like to see come from something like this:
>
> A certain (large) percentage of community developers become really good
> Qt developers and stop harping on what Maemo/Meego is/was. If this
> doesn't happen, then I think that the offering should be considered a
> failure.
>
> We don't need more people putting effort into prolonging Maemo/Meego. We
> need people who are willing to put time and effort into forging a future
> for the community, be it linux mobile, or something else.
>
> Yes, I've been ranting a lot lately -- apologies. It's been quite a
> strange experience to see the Maemo community going through what it's
> going through right now... Déjà vu. What I'd really like to see is a new
> direction with new prospects and new community members.
>
> Something like what Quim is suggesting could help. But, it could also
> hinder.
>
> Br,
> Tim
>
>
Thank you for your comments. No need to apologize. It's always good to
remember the long term and to contemplate the future. I do that a lot
lately, or more specifically, ponder how to build a bridge to that future
from where we are today. Which is better than last year, when I was simply
pondering how to prevent stagnancy. For every community project, I try to
think as you have mentioned, how does this bring us closer to where we want
to be?

I have posted before implying that free device giveaways can be a
distraction not in keeping with an open source community. And this
proposal does feel a bit like the same old thing being repeated. And
harmattan has in the past seemed like something that was not a path to the
future. But at the same time, denying the present doesn't bring us a new
future. Fact is we don't currently have a mission statement that states
the future we want. So how can this be inconsistent with the as yet
undefined future. It seems like we are in the process of moving to a
community OBS which will integrate harmattan and fremantle and reading all
of Quim's comments in this thread, the proposal does not seem to have a lot
of strings attached. So while I'm now just thinking, I suspect we will
accept it with appreciation for Nokia's goodwill. Remember this offer
could have been made to Qt project or some other place.

p.s. javispedro - thank you also for the good points you have made re app
distribution

Br,
Rob

  •  Reply

Re: N9 device seeding activity

Timo Härkönen
Karma: 417
2012-04-20 05:48 UTC
Hi

20. huhtikuuta 2012 2.14 robert bauer <nybauer@gmail.com> kirjoitti:

>
>
> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Quim Gil <quim.gil@nokia.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Let's say we could have a nice amount of N9s (*) for a maemo.orgcentered device seeding activity.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> We'll use them at least for this year's Coding Competition. I hope you
> remember this activity. We already started thinking about including Qt in
> the competition this year. Please review the last few pages of this
> thread <http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71561>
>
>
I'm just left pondering what this device seeding program has to do with the
competition? Especially if the intention is to get the devices in the hands
of developers before the summer vacation period?

and for the record I'm not going to apply for a device since I already got
those from elsewhere. But I am interested in seeing them landing in cabable
hands.

Also I'd explicitly add open source development as a requirement for
getting one.

BR

Timo

  •  Reply

Re: N9 device seeding activity

Aniello Del Sorbo
Karma: 828
2012-04-20 08:26 UTC
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 19:53, Erik Hovland <erik@hovland.org> wrote:
>>> EXCELLENT NEWS !
>>>
>>> Of course, it s should take care of previous distributed devices to not
>>> distribute a second one to the same people.
>>>
>>> A n950 user :)
>>>
>>
>> I was just about to give away my n950 to a worthy developer :-p :-p
>
> Don't let a few hundred N9s and a couple N950s change your mind.
> Worthiness will far outstrip supply!
>

:-)
I will swap it for a Pureview 808 :D

Kidding. Perhaps :p

--
anidel
  •  Reply

Re: N9 device seeding activity

RM Bauer
Karma: 554
2012-04-20 12:02 UTC
On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 1:48 AM, Timo Härkönen <timop.harkonen@gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi
>
> 20. huhtikuuta 2012 2.14 robert bauer <nybauer@gmail.com> kirjoitti:
>
>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Quim Gil <quim.gil@nokia.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Let's say we could have a nice amount of N9s (*) for a maemo.orgcentered device seeding activity.
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>> We'll use them at least for this year's Coding Competition. I hope you
>> remember this activity. We already started thinking about including Qt in
>> the competition this year. Please review the last few pages of this
>> thread <http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71561>
>>
>>
> I'm just left pondering what this device seeding program has to do with
> the competition? Especially if the intention is to get the devices in the
> hands of developers before the summer vacation period?
>
> and for the record I'm not going to apply for a device since I already got
> those from elsewhere. But I am interested in seeing them landing in cabable
> hands.
>
> Also I'd explicitly add open source development as a requirement for
> getting one.
>
>
Last year, N9s were given out as prizes to the winning app developers.
There was some uncertainty where we would source those this year and so now
we have a source. I don't know that there is anything special about when
the devices are given out, but yes the summer is a prime period for
activity. It's been noted that people don't always use the device for the
community as promised and so the competition has the advantage that it
really does push apps. Also, I wonder if there are more devices available
than we need for the competition so we can simply reserve some devices for
the competition.

I agree with open source requirement, actually I had assumed it would be
one of council's criteria for selecting anyway.

Rob

  •  Reply

Re: N9 device seeding activity

Cosimo Kroll
Karma: 618
2012-04-20 12:17 UTC
Who will organise this years coding competition?

--

Von meinem Nokia N950 gesendet

robert bauer schrieb am 20.04.12 14:02:


On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 1:48 AM, Timo Härkönen <timop.harkonen@gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi
>
> 20. huhtikuuta 2012 2.14 robert bauer <nybauer@gmail.com> kirjoitti:
>
>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Quim Gil <quim.gil@nokia.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Let's say we could have a nice amount of N9s (*) for a maemo.orgcentered device seeding activity.
>>>
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>> We'll use them at least for this year's Coding Competition. I hope you
>> remember this activity. We already started thinking about including Qt in
>> the competition this year. Please review the last few pages of this
>> thread <http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71561>
>>
>>
> I'm just left pondering what this device seeding program has to do with
> the competition? Especially if the intention is to get the devices in the
> hands of developers before the summer vacation period?
>
> and for the record I'm not going to apply for a device since I already got
> those from elsewhere. But I am interested in seeing them landing in cabable
> hands.
>
> Also I'd explicitly add open source development as a requirement for
> getting one.
>
>
Last year, N9s were given out as prizes to the winning app developers.
There was some uncertainty where we would source those this year and so now
we have a source. I don't know that there is anything special about when
the devices are given out, but yes the summer is a prime period for
activity. It's been noted that people don't always use the device for the
community as promised and so the competition has the advantage that it
really does push apps. Also, I wonder if there are more devices available
than we need for the competition so we can simply reserve some devices for
the competition.

I agree with open source requirement, actually I had assumed it would be
one of council's criteria for selecting anyway.

Rob


  •  Reply

Re: N9 device seeding activity

RM Bauer
Karma: 554
2012-04-20 12:24 UTC
Don't think I forgot you said you might be too busy ;-).

But I did say I would ask again (no pressure). If you can't do it again,
we'll find one or two persons to step in. And seriously, if you think it
can't be done without you, let's discuss that thoroughly. Anything worth
doing is worth doing well.

Rob

On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Cosimo Kroll <zehjotkah@googlemail.com>wrote:

> Who will organise this years coding competition?
>
> --
>
> Von meinem Nokia N950 gesendet
>
> robert bauer schrieb am 20.04.12 14:02:
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 1:48 AM, Timo Härkönen <timop.harkonen@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> 20. huhtikuuta 2012 2.14 robert bauer <nybauer@gmail.com> kirjoitti:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Quim Gil <quim.gil@nokia.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Let's say we could have a nice amount of N9s (*) for a maemo.orgcentered device seeding activity.
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>> We'll use them at least for this year's Coding Competition. I hope you
>>> remember this activity. We already started thinking about including Qt in
>>> the competition this year. Please review the last few pages of this
>>> thread <http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71561>
>>>
>>>
>> I'm just left pondering what this device seeding program has to do with
>> the competition? Especially if the intention is to get the devices in the
>> hands of developers before the summer vacation period?
>>
>> and for the record I'm not going to apply for a device since I already
>> got those from elsewhere. But I am interested in seeing them landing in
>> cabable hands.
>>
>> Also I'd explicitly add open source development as a requirement for
>> getting one.
>>
>>
> Last year, N9s were given out as prizes to the winning app developers.
> There was some uncertainty where we would source those this year and so now
> we have a source. I don't know that there is anything special about when
> the devices are given out, but yes the summer is a prime period for
> activity. It's been noted that people don't always use the device for the
> community as promised and so the competition has the advantage that it
> really does push apps. Also, I wonder if there are more devices available
> than we need for the competition so we can simply reserve some devices for
> the competition.
>
> I agree with open source requirement, actually I had assumed it would be
> one of council's criteria for selecting anyway.
>
> Rob
>
>
>
>
>
>

  •  Reply

Re: N9 device seeding activity

Cosimo Kroll
Karma: 618
2012-04-20 12:31 UTC
Oh no, it can be perfectly done without me. :)

I'm just curious if there's already one who would like to do it...

--

Von meinem Nokia N950 gesendet

robert bauer schrieb am 20.04.12 14:24:
Don't think I forgot you said you might be too busy ;-).

But I did say I would ask again (no pressure). If you can't do it again,
we'll find one or two persons to step in. And seriously, if you think it
can't be done without you, let's discuss that thoroughly. Anything worth
doing is worth doing well.

Rob

On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 8:17 AM, Cosimo Kroll <zehjotkah@googlemail.com>wrote:

> Who will organise this years coding competition?
>
> --
>
> Von meinem Nokia N950 gesendet
>
> robert bauer schrieb am 20.04.12 14:02:
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 1:48 AM, Timo Härkönen <timop.harkonen@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Hi
>>
>> 20. huhtikuuta 2012 2.14 robert bauer <nybauer@gmail.com> kirjoitti:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 11:32 AM, Quim Gil <quim.gil@nokia.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Let's say we could have a nice amount of N9s (*) for a maemo.orgcentered device seeding activity.
>>>>
>>>> What do you think?
>>>>
>>>> We'll use them at least for this year's Coding Competition. I hope you
>>> remember this activity. We already started thinking about including Qt in
>>> the competition this year. Please review the last few pages of this
>>> thread <http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=71561>
>>>
>>>
>> I'm just left pondering what this device seeding program has to do with
>> the competition? Especially if the intention is to get the devices in the
>> hands of developers before the summer vacation period?
>>
>> and for the record I'm not going to apply for a device since I already
>> got those from elsewhere. But I am interested in seeing them landing in
>> cabable hands.
>>
>> Also I'd explicitly add open source development as a requirement for
>> getting one.
>>
>>
> Last year, N9s were given out as prizes to the winning app developers.
> There was some uncertainty where we would source those this year and so now
> we have a source. I don't know that there is anything special about when
> the devices are given out, but yes the summer is a prime period for
> activity. It's been noted that people don't always use the device for the
> community as promised and so the competition has the advantage that it
> really does push apps. Also, I wonder if there are more devices available
> than we need for the competition so we can simply reserve some devices for
> the competition.
>
> I agree with open source requirement, actually I had assumed it would be
> one of council's criteria for selecting anyway.
>
> Rob
>
>
>
>
>
>


  •  Reply