maemo.org team meeting Tuesday the 14th?
maemo.org team meeting Tuesday the 14th?
Re: maemo.org team meeting Tuesday the 14th?
2010-09-06 18:17 UTC
Hi,
Is a meeting going to help? TBH, I don't want us to waste our time
with a meeting if the outcome is good intentions and commitments which
aren't delivered (despite repeated requests for status). Dave, what
were your thoughts on the purpose of the meeting? One thing which
would be useful to clarify is how many hours a week our paid
contributors are now working on Maemo stuff, incl. highlighting where
you're doing far more than contracted!
How about, I'll attend - and support - a meeting, if everyone who's
responsible for a task from the Brainstorm comes forward, describes
the status of the committed tasks and gives a quick summary of what
they've been working on for the past few months.
I'll start (with poor formatting cos of mobile Gmail client):
Name: Andrew Flegg (Jaffa)
Position: Maemo Community Council chair (volunteer)
Committed task: none
Task status: n/a
Recent work:
* Kicking off election
* "Extra-curricular" activities: MWKN & Hermes
* Co-ordinating council work
* Raising MeeGo community migration issues with Nokia
* On MeeGo Conference sponsorship committee
* Communicating MeeGo Conference details to Maemo community, to try
and ensure it retains some of the community spirit of the Maemo
Summits.
Thanks in advance,
Andrew
On 06/09/2010, Ryan Abel <rabelg5@gmail.com> wrote:
> We haven't really had a sprint meeting since the end of the 2010 Brainstorm.
> Dave has recommended we hold a maemo.org team coordination meeting to help
> get everybody back on the same page.
>
> The date suggested was next Tuesday (2010-09-14). Assuming the date's
> acceptable for everybody, how does 1200 UTC sounds?
>
> --
> Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council member
>
>
--
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/
Maemo Community Council chair
Is a meeting going to help? TBH, I don't want us to waste our time
with a meeting if the outcome is good intentions and commitments which
aren't delivered (despite repeated requests for status). Dave, what
were your thoughts on the purpose of the meeting? One thing which
would be useful to clarify is how many hours a week our paid
contributors are now working on Maemo stuff, incl. highlighting where
you're doing far more than contracted!
How about, I'll attend - and support - a meeting, if everyone who's
responsible for a task from the Brainstorm comes forward, describes
the status of the committed tasks and gives a quick summary of what
they've been working on for the past few months.
I'll start (with poor formatting cos of mobile Gmail client):
Name: Andrew Flegg (Jaffa)
Position: Maemo Community Council chair (volunteer)
Committed task: none
Task status: n/a
Recent work:
* Kicking off election
* "Extra-curricular" activities: MWKN & Hermes
* Co-ordinating council work
* Raising MeeGo community migration issues with Nokia
* On MeeGo Conference sponsorship committee
* Communicating MeeGo Conference details to Maemo community, to try
and ensure it retains some of the community spirit of the Maemo
Summits.
Thanks in advance,
Andrew
On 06/09/2010, Ryan Abel <rabelg5@gmail.com> wrote:
> We haven't really had a sprint meeting since the end of the 2010 Brainstorm.
> Dave has recommended we hold a maemo.org team coordination meeting to help
> get everybody back on the same page.
>
> The date suggested was next Tuesday (2010-09-14). Assuming the date's
> acceptable for everybody, how does 1200 UTC sounds?
>
> --
> Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council member
>
>
--
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/
Maemo Community Council chair
Re: maemo.org team meeting Tuesday the 14th?
2010-09-07 09:16 UTC
Hi,
Andrew Flegg wrote:
> Is a meeting going to help?
For me, at least, yes.
> Dave, what
> were your thoughts on the purpose of the meeting?
Setting short-term goals & checking past goals against progress.
We haven't had a meeting like that since the last council election, and
it's been missed. I agree with you that we need to change the way we do
sprint meetings - I don't think that the staff should be setting their
own goals, I think that the council/community should be setting them.
But we need the way-points.
> One thing which
> would be useful to clarify is how many hours a week our paid
> contributors are now working on Maemo stuff, incl. highlighting where
> you're doing far more than contracted!
For my part, I did not do any Maemo work in July, or most of August.
July, I was working flat out on other projects, August I took 3 weeks
vacation. Since returning from vacation, I've basically not done a lot
of Maemo work either - keeping up with forums, and starting the ball
rolling on elections, and pitching in (unbilled) for various MeeGo
discussions.
I am contracted for 50 hours a month (~1/4 time) until December, at
which point it is looking like there will no longer be a budget (or,
perhaps, a need) for my position.
> How about, I'll attend - and support - a meeting, if everyone who's
> responsible for a task from the Brainstorm comes forward, describes
> the status of the committed tasks and gives a quick summary of what
> they've been working on for the past few months.
Brainstorm was about setting a 6 month agenda, not monthly way-points.
I'm still missing a first planning meeting following on from the
brainstorm, to be honest.
Cheers,
Dave.
--
maemo.org docsmaster
Email: dneary@maemo.org
Jabber: bolsh@jabber.org
Andrew Flegg wrote:
> Is a meeting going to help?
For me, at least, yes.
> Dave, what
> were your thoughts on the purpose of the meeting?
Setting short-term goals & checking past goals against progress.
We haven't had a meeting like that since the last council election, and
it's been missed. I agree with you that we need to change the way we do
sprint meetings - I don't think that the staff should be setting their
own goals, I think that the council/community should be setting them.
But we need the way-points.
> One thing which
> would be useful to clarify is how many hours a week our paid
> contributors are now working on Maemo stuff, incl. highlighting where
> you're doing far more than contracted!
For my part, I did not do any Maemo work in July, or most of August.
July, I was working flat out on other projects, August I took 3 weeks
vacation. Since returning from vacation, I've basically not done a lot
of Maemo work either - keeping up with forums, and starting the ball
rolling on elections, and pitching in (unbilled) for various MeeGo
discussions.
I am contracted for 50 hours a month (~1/4 time) until December, at
which point it is looking like there will no longer be a budget (or,
perhaps, a need) for my position.
> How about, I'll attend - and support - a meeting, if everyone who's
> responsible for a task from the Brainstorm comes forward, describes
> the status of the committed tasks and gives a quick summary of what
> they've been working on for the past few months.
Brainstorm was about setting a 6 month agenda, not monthly way-points.
I'm still missing a first planning meeting following on from the
brainstorm, to be honest.
Cheers,
Dave.
--
maemo.org docsmaster
Email: dneary@maemo.org
Jabber: bolsh@jabber.org
Re: maemo.org team meeting Tuesday the 14th?
2010-09-07 13:12 UTC
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 10:16, Dave Neary <dneary@maemo.org> wrote:
>
> We haven't had a meeting like that since the last council election, and
> it's been missed. I agree with you that we need to change the way we do
> sprint meetings - I don't think that the staff should be setting their
> own goals, I think that the council/community should be setting them.
Not wanting to be totally unconstructive, but the community *did* set
priorities and then gave the staff ownership of those tasks to deliver
them. Nobody came back and said "can't do that" or "that's just
crazy".
> But we need the way-points.
I seem to remember arguing for way-points and reporting and was argued
against. I *think* the arguments were that professionals could be
trusted, there were already multiple feedback mechanisms and so on.
I'm _not_ going to, effectively, waste a couple of hours of my time
dealing with a meeting in which a) not everyone turns up; b) we shrug
off the fact that something which "must" have been done wasn't. If
there isn't the effort (and, ultimately, respect) to provide a short
email ahead of time from each participant to save time being wasted,
we'll end up either in the situation where it goes back to a meeting
where people check things off a list (or don't) OR we go to a MeeGo
TSG-style meeting where decisions have to be taken there, but none of
the materials have been prepared or read ahead of time.
> For my part, I did not do any Maemo work in July, or most of August.
> July, I was working flat out on other projects, August I took 3 weeks
> vacation. Since returning from vacation, I've basically not done a lot
> of Maemo work either - keeping up with forums, and starting the ball
> rolling on elections, and pitching in (unbilled) for various MeeGo
> discussions.
>
> I am contracted for 50 hours a month (~1/4 time) until December, at
> which point it is looking like there will no longer be a budget (or,
> perhaps, a need) for my position.
OOI, although it's probably not relevant to this discussion (or -
indeed - any of my business) does your holiday get split across your
projects? In other words, your holiday cost 3/4 of a week (i.e. about
3.5 days) "Maemo" time. More a question for Tero to be concerned
about, but do _you_ think we are getting value for money for that 50
hours? Although 50 hours isn't much and can go like a flash :-(
>> How about, I'll attend - and support - a meeting, if everyone who's
>> responsible for a task from the Brainstorm comes forward, describes
>> the status of the committed tasks and gives a quick summary of what
>> they've been working on for the past few months.
>
> Brainstorm was about setting a 6 month agenda, not monthly way-points.
> I'm still missing a first planning meeting following on from the
> brainstorm, to be honest.
There was a Brainstorm review meeting (which, unfortunately, I
couldn't attend) which produced a set of committed tasks and relevant
owners. That was followed up by emails - to this list - requesting an
outline plan from each owner.
The first real communication on *anything* coming out of the
Brainstorm was Karsten's Bugzilla 3.4 email last week.
So, here's a a suggested agenda:
1) Overview of current paid resources for maemo.org, and
current thoughts on roadmap/future (Tero Kojo)
2) Overview of Brainstorm roadmap progress[1] & current status:
* Introduction (Community Council rep)
* SSO (Tero/Niels)
* Garage (Ferenc)
* Packages & Downloads (Niels)
* Bugzilla (Andre)
* Wiki (Dave)
* Planet & News (Henri)
* Talk (Reggie)
3) Next steps (Community Council rep)
4) AOB
Is there anything else which should show up under "2"? The original
minutes[2] of the meeting said "planned Nemein work" which was never
clarified. If (2) contains status and progress, that should hopefully
include that.
Thoughts welcome.
Cheers,
Andrew
[1] http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-June/004345.html
[2] http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-June/004335.html
--
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/
Maemo Community Council chair
>
> We haven't had a meeting like that since the last council election, and
> it's been missed. I agree with you that we need to change the way we do
> sprint meetings - I don't think that the staff should be setting their
> own goals, I think that the council/community should be setting them.
Not wanting to be totally unconstructive, but the community *did* set
priorities and then gave the staff ownership of those tasks to deliver
them. Nobody came back and said "can't do that" or "that's just
crazy".
> But we need the way-points.
I seem to remember arguing for way-points and reporting and was argued
against. I *think* the arguments were that professionals could be
trusted, there were already multiple feedback mechanisms and so on.
I'm _not_ going to, effectively, waste a couple of hours of my time
dealing with a meeting in which a) not everyone turns up; b) we shrug
off the fact that something which "must" have been done wasn't. If
there isn't the effort (and, ultimately, respect) to provide a short
email ahead of time from each participant to save time being wasted,
we'll end up either in the situation where it goes back to a meeting
where people check things off a list (or don't) OR we go to a MeeGo
TSG-style meeting where decisions have to be taken there, but none of
the materials have been prepared or read ahead of time.
> For my part, I did not do any Maemo work in July, or most of August.
> July, I was working flat out on other projects, August I took 3 weeks
> vacation. Since returning from vacation, I've basically not done a lot
> of Maemo work either - keeping up with forums, and starting the ball
> rolling on elections, and pitching in (unbilled) for various MeeGo
> discussions.
>
> I am contracted for 50 hours a month (~1/4 time) until December, at
> which point it is looking like there will no longer be a budget (or,
> perhaps, a need) for my position.
OOI, although it's probably not relevant to this discussion (or -
indeed - any of my business) does your holiday get split across your
projects? In other words, your holiday cost 3/4 of a week (i.e. about
3.5 days) "Maemo" time. More a question for Tero to be concerned
about, but do _you_ think we are getting value for money for that 50
hours? Although 50 hours isn't much and can go like a flash :-(
>> How about, I'll attend - and support - a meeting, if everyone who's
>> responsible for a task from the Brainstorm comes forward, describes
>> the status of the committed tasks and gives a quick summary of what
>> they've been working on for the past few months.
>
> Brainstorm was about setting a 6 month agenda, not monthly way-points.
> I'm still missing a first planning meeting following on from the
> brainstorm, to be honest.
There was a Brainstorm review meeting (which, unfortunately, I
couldn't attend) which produced a set of committed tasks and relevant
owners. That was followed up by emails - to this list - requesting an
outline plan from each owner.
The first real communication on *anything* coming out of the
Brainstorm was Karsten's Bugzilla 3.4 email last week.
So, here's a a suggested agenda:
1) Overview of current paid resources for maemo.org, and
current thoughts on roadmap/future (Tero Kojo)
2) Overview of Brainstorm roadmap progress[1] & current status:
* Introduction (Community Council rep)
* SSO (Tero/Niels)
* Garage (Ferenc)
* Packages & Downloads (Niels)
* Bugzilla (Andre)
* Wiki (Dave)
* Planet & News (Henri)
* Talk (Reggie)
3) Next steps (Community Council rep)
4) AOB
Is there anything else which should show up under "2"? The original
minutes[2] of the meeting said "planned Nemein work" which was never
clarified. If (2) contains status and progress, that should hopefully
include that.
Thoughts welcome.
Cheers,
Andrew
[1] http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-June/004345.html
[2] http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-June/004335.html
--
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/
Maemo Community Council chair
Re: maemo.org team meeting Tuesday the 14th?
2010-09-07 13:59 UTC
Hi,
Andrew Flegg wrote:
> OOI, although it's probably not relevant to this discussion (or -
> indeed - any of my business) does your holiday get split across your
> projects? In other words, your holiday cost 3/4 of a week (i.e. about
> 3.5 days) "Maemo" time.
When I don't work, I don't get paid - this is the life of the
independent :) The hours I didn't do in August will get done in
September & October.
> More a question for Tero to be concerned
> about, but do _you_ think we are getting value for money for that 50
> hours? Although 50 hours isn't much and can go like a flash :-(
I agree, 50 hours is not much - and just following mailing lists &
forums could potentially eat most of it.
Like I said, for the past 2 months, I haven't done much Maemo work, so
for Sept - December, it will actually work out more like 75 hours a
month, which isn't too bad.
> So, here's a a suggested agenda:
>
> 1) Overview of current paid resources for maemo.org, and
> current thoughts on roadmap/future (Tero Kojo)
> 2) Overview of Brainstorm roadmap progress[1] & current status:
> * Introduction (Community Council rep)
> * SSO (Tero/Niels)
> * Garage (Ferenc)
> * Packages & Downloads (Niels)
> * Bugzilla (Andre)
> * Wiki (Dave)
> * Planet & News (Henri)
> * Talk (Reggie)
> 3) Next steps (Community Council rep)
> 4) AOB
Sounds good to me.
Cheers,
Dave.
--
maemo.org docsmaster
Email: dneary@maemo.org
Jabber: bolsh@jabber.org
Andrew Flegg wrote:
> OOI, although it's probably not relevant to this discussion (or -
> indeed - any of my business) does your holiday get split across your
> projects? In other words, your holiday cost 3/4 of a week (i.e. about
> 3.5 days) "Maemo" time.
When I don't work, I don't get paid - this is the life of the
independent :) The hours I didn't do in August will get done in
September & October.
> More a question for Tero to be concerned
> about, but do _you_ think we are getting value for money for that 50
> hours? Although 50 hours isn't much and can go like a flash :-(
I agree, 50 hours is not much - and just following mailing lists &
forums could potentially eat most of it.
Like I said, for the past 2 months, I haven't done much Maemo work, so
for Sept - December, it will actually work out more like 75 hours a
month, which isn't too bad.
> So, here's a a suggested agenda:
>
> 1) Overview of current paid resources for maemo.org, and
> current thoughts on roadmap/future (Tero Kojo)
> 2) Overview of Brainstorm roadmap progress[1] & current status:
> * Introduction (Community Council rep)
> * SSO (Tero/Niels)
> * Garage (Ferenc)
> * Packages & Downloads (Niels)
> * Bugzilla (Andre)
> * Wiki (Dave)
> * Planet & News (Henri)
> * Talk (Reggie)
> 3) Next steps (Community Council rep)
> 4) AOB
Sounds good to me.
Cheers,
Dave.
--
maemo.org docsmaster
Email: dneary@maemo.org
Jabber: bolsh@jabber.org
Re: maemo.org team meeting Tuesday the 14th?
2010-09-07 14:15 UTC
how about we stop having discussions about meetings and actually decide to
try to work together for our users?
something each of us can work well towards.
there does seem like there are resources available and people to do things.
what is lacking however is one thing specific and concrete for everyone to
pull together and work towards.
Maemo used to have organic flexibility and the ability to both react and
innovate to new challenges and it seems to have all but bricked up the store
and given up.
We have a community who are day in day out creating new innovative
applications for our devices and we have had just ~ 30% INCREASE in
downloads this month alone (from 20 to 28million!).
More applications are coming and each generation builds on the last, so
getting new clean good quality applications onto maemo.org gets easier day
by day.
This helps Meego in the long run because some of those applications are Qt
based and getting them tested and validated to the high maemo.org standards
will put them into good stead to be usable on meego.
I sent Dave a mail a couple of days ago, regarding something concrete
deliverable and potentially great for everyone involved (the community
especially), if he thinks its worthwhile perhaps it can be opened up for
wider discussion.
Gary
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Dave Neary <dneary@maemo.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Andrew Flegg wrote:
> > OOI, although it's probably not relevant to this discussion (or -
> > indeed - any of my business) does your holiday get split across your
> > projects? In other words, your holiday cost 3/4 of a week (i.e. about
> > 3.5 days) "Maemo" time.
>
> When I don't work, I don't get paid - this is the life of the
> independent :) The hours I didn't do in August will get done in
> September & October.
>
> > More a question for Tero to be concerned
> > about, but do _you_ think we are getting value for money for that 50
> > hours? Although 50 hours isn't much and can go like a flash :-(
>
> I agree, 50 hours is not much - and just following mailing lists &
> forums could potentially eat most of it.
>
> Like I said, for the past 2 months, I haven't done much Maemo work, so
> for Sept - December, it will actually work out more like 75 hours a
> month, which isn't too bad.
>
> > So, here's a a suggested agenda:
> >
> > 1) Overview of current paid resources for maemo.org, and
> > current thoughts on roadmap/future (Tero Kojo)
> > 2) Overview of Brainstorm roadmap progress[1] & current status:
> > * Introduction (Community Council rep)
> > * SSO (Tero/Niels)
> > * Garage (Ferenc)
> > * Packages & Downloads (Niels)
> > * Bugzilla (Andre)
> > * Wiki (Dave)
> > * Planet & News (Henri)
> > * Talk (Reggie)
> > 3) Next steps (Community Council rep)
> > 4) AOB
>
> Sounds good to me.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave.
>
> --
> maemo.org docsmaster
> Email: dneary@maemo.org
> Jabber: bolsh@jabber.org
>
>
try to work together for our users?
something each of us can work well towards.
there does seem like there are resources available and people to do things.
what is lacking however is one thing specific and concrete for everyone to
pull together and work towards.
Maemo used to have organic flexibility and the ability to both react and
innovate to new challenges and it seems to have all but bricked up the store
and given up.
We have a community who are day in day out creating new innovative
applications for our devices and we have had just ~ 30% INCREASE in
downloads this month alone (from 20 to 28million!).
More applications are coming and each generation builds on the last, so
getting new clean good quality applications onto maemo.org gets easier day
by day.
This helps Meego in the long run because some of those applications are Qt
based and getting them tested and validated to the high maemo.org standards
will put them into good stead to be usable on meego.
I sent Dave a mail a couple of days ago, regarding something concrete
deliverable and potentially great for everyone involved (the community
especially), if he thinks its worthwhile perhaps it can be opened up for
wider discussion.
Gary
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 1:59 PM, Dave Neary <dneary@maemo.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Andrew Flegg wrote:
> > OOI, although it's probably not relevant to this discussion (or -
> > indeed - any of my business) does your holiday get split across your
> > projects? In other words, your holiday cost 3/4 of a week (i.e. about
> > 3.5 days) "Maemo" time.
>
> When I don't work, I don't get paid - this is the life of the
> independent :) The hours I didn't do in August will get done in
> September & October.
>
> > More a question for Tero to be concerned
> > about, but do _you_ think we are getting value for money for that 50
> > hours? Although 50 hours isn't much and can go like a flash :-(
>
> I agree, 50 hours is not much - and just following mailing lists &
> forums could potentially eat most of it.
>
> Like I said, for the past 2 months, I haven't done much Maemo work, so
> for Sept - December, it will actually work out more like 75 hours a
> month, which isn't too bad.
>
> > So, here's a a suggested agenda:
> >
> > 1) Overview of current paid resources for maemo.org, and
> > current thoughts on roadmap/future (Tero Kojo)
> > 2) Overview of Brainstorm roadmap progress[1] & current status:
> > * Introduction (Community Council rep)
> > * SSO (Tero/Niels)
> > * Garage (Ferenc)
> > * Packages & Downloads (Niels)
> > * Bugzilla (Andre)
> > * Wiki (Dave)
> > * Planet & News (Henri)
> > * Talk (Reggie)
> > 3) Next steps (Community Council rep)
> > 4) AOB
>
> Sounds good to me.
>
> Cheers,
> Dave.
>
> --
> maemo.org docsmaster
> Email: dneary@maemo.org
> Jabber: bolsh@jabber.org
>
>
Re: maemo.org team meeting Tuesday the 14th?
2010-09-07 14:20 UTC
Hi,
Hi,
excuse me all if interrupt your discussion about this meeting
organization, but my sensation (please correct me if I'm wrong) is
that in the past you have been concentrated more in technical stuff
than community stuff.
Let's try to make the point.
We (Maemo and Moblin) have merged together into MeeGo. I don't know
how Moblin users feel like, but I can say, from Maemo point of view,
that the most part of Community feel lost.
Developers feel abandoned, because there none is testing applications
(I know something about it.... I've two apps in QA queue since 2
months and they only have 2-3 votes and I need 10 to be promoted to
extras). Some old users feel "betrayed" because they understand that
Nokia doesn't like to support "legacy" OS anymore (read for example
this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=808703#post808703 ). I
really would like to be able to reply to these people, telling them
"yes, I'm going to take this task", but I don't know what are Nokia
plans for the future onf N810 and N900.
Merging two different communities is not only a matter of creating a
new Linux OS, a new UI and saying "hey guys, our name from now is
MeeGo!". It doesn't work like that. We are really missing some
community merging guidelines to follow. I know that we are a
community, we can make proposal ecc... but you can understand that
this is not an easy task. There is no need only of tech skills to do
this, we need to study a migration path in depth.
This, of course, if you're interested in merging the two communities.
If instead you're interesting in creating a whole new community from
scratch, well... that's another story.
I probably could have not understand what your plans are and if there
is already a migration path, but keep in mind that I'm not the only
one that think in this way. Probably there have been lack of
communication from "you" and the existing community. Just talk around
and read what users write, you'll understand what I'm talking about.
It's true when you say that the next months will be very important for
the future of Maemo, but we must have clear in mind what we want to do
with it and what users want.
Regards,
--
Andrea Grandi
email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
Hi,
excuse me all if interrupt your discussion about this meeting
organization, but my sensation (please correct me if I'm wrong) is
that in the past you have been concentrated more in technical stuff
than community stuff.
Let's try to make the point.
We (Maemo and Moblin) have merged together into MeeGo. I don't know
how Moblin users feel like, but I can say, from Maemo point of view,
that the most part of Community feel lost.
Developers feel abandoned, because there none is testing applications
(I know something about it.... I've two apps in QA queue since 2
months and they only have 2-3 votes and I need 10 to be promoted to
extras). Some old users feel "betrayed" because they understand that
Nokia doesn't like to support "legacy" OS anymore (read for example
this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=808703#post808703 ). I
really would like to be able to reply to these people, telling them
"yes, I'm going to take this task", but I don't know what are Nokia
plans for the future onf N810 and N900.
Merging two different communities is not only a matter of creating a
new Linux OS, a new UI and saying "hey guys, our name from now is
MeeGo!". It doesn't work like that. We are really missing some
community merging guidelines to follow. I know that we are a
community, we can make proposal ecc... but you can understand that
this is not an easy task. There is no need only of tech skills to do
this, we need to study a migration path in depth.
This, of course, if you're interested in merging the two communities.
If instead you're interesting in creating a whole new community from
scratch, well... that's another story.
I probably could have not understand what your plans are and if there
is already a migration path, but keep in mind that I'm not the only
one that think in this way. Probably there have been lack of
communication from "you" and the existing community. Just talk around
and read what users write, you'll understand what I'm talking about.
It's true when you say that the next months will be very important for
the future of Maemo, but we must have clear in mind what we want to do
with it and what users want.
Regards,
--
Andrea Grandi
email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
Re: maemo.org team meeting Tuesday the 14th?
2010-09-07 16:52 UTC
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 15:15, Gary Birkett <liquid@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> how about we stop having discussions about meetings and actually
> decide to try to work together for our users?
>
[snip]
>
> I sent Dave a mail a couple of days ago, regarding something concrete
> deliverable and potentially great for everyone involved (the community
> especially), if he thinks its worthwhile perhaps it can be opened up for
> wider discussion.
Is not sharing this grand idea part of this open collaborative process
of which you speak so highly? :-)
No-one's going to object to the idea of a grand plan; but there may be
concrete issues with a specific proposal. However, I suspect this
meeting is what to do with the paid staff:
* What are their BAU/ongoing tasks?
* Do these ongoing tasks fill up all their contracted work time?
* What things would _they_ like to see done, which they don't
have time for? Which of these would give an easy way in to
new community members supporting the infrastructure?
Cheers,
Andrew
--
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/
Maemo Community Council chair
>
> how about we stop having discussions about meetings and actually
> decide to try to work together for our users?
>
[snip]
>
> I sent Dave a mail a couple of days ago, regarding something concrete
> deliverable and potentially great for everyone involved (the community
> especially), if he thinks its worthwhile perhaps it can be opened up for
> wider discussion.
Is not sharing this grand idea part of this open collaborative process
of which you speak so highly? :-)
No-one's going to object to the idea of a grand plan; but there may be
concrete issues with a specific proposal. However, I suspect this
meeting is what to do with the paid staff:
* What are their BAU/ongoing tasks?
* Do these ongoing tasks fill up all their contracted work time?
* What things would _they_ like to see done, which they don't
have time for? Which of these would give an easy way in to
new community members supporting the infrastructure?
Cheers,
Andrew
--
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/
Maemo Community Council chair
Re: maemo.org team meeting Tuesday the 14th?
2010-09-07 16:59 UTC
On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 15:20, Andrea Grandi <a.grandi@gmail.com> wrote:
>
[snip]
>
> This, of course, if you're interested in merging the two communities.
> If instead you're interesting in creating a whole new community from
> scratch, well... that's another story.
Nokia, Intel, large swathes of the Maemo community and the nascent
MeeGo community have all indicated that a "forced" migration is
neither planned nor desirable.
Instead, people will move to the new community if they adopt a MeeGo
device. It's not *entirely* clear if the Harmattan device will fulfill
those criteria!
> I probably could have not understand what your plans are and if there
> is already a migration path, but keep in mind that I'm not the only
> one that think in this way. Probably there have been lack of
> communication from "you" and the existing community. Just talk around
> and read what users write, you'll understand what I'm talking about.
Who is the "you" here? Your email sounds quite accusatory, but this is
a thread about using the various *masters that are paid for by Nokia.
> It's true when you say that the next months will be very important for
> the future of Maemo, but we must have clear in mind what we want to do
> with it and what users want.
Although off-topic for this thread, I think the answer to the question
"what users want" is trivial: they want continual updates to their OS,
a steady stream of enhancements and a vibrant ecosystem. What's
unclear is the best way of achieving that:
* Core MeeGo Handset port to N900
* MeeGo-Harmattan port to N900
* Maemo 5 Community SSU
Certainly in the short term, the last one is the easiest to achieve
and can even provide benefits whilst waiting for (hopefully) PR1.3.
That's what I support MohammadAG's efforts in this area.
The problem is the viability of the first two. Previous Hacker
Editions haven't had any ongoing support or vibrancy, and the first is
looking unlikely for MeeGo 1.1.
Cheers,
Andrew
--
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/
Maemo Community Council chair
>
[snip]
>
> This, of course, if you're interested in merging the two communities.
> If instead you're interesting in creating a whole new community from
> scratch, well... that's another story.
Nokia, Intel, large swathes of the Maemo community and the nascent
MeeGo community have all indicated that a "forced" migration is
neither planned nor desirable.
Instead, people will move to the new community if they adopt a MeeGo
device. It's not *entirely* clear if the Harmattan device will fulfill
those criteria!
> I probably could have not understand what your plans are and if there
> is already a migration path, but keep in mind that I'm not the only
> one that think in this way. Probably there have been lack of
> communication from "you" and the existing community. Just talk around
> and read what users write, you'll understand what I'm talking about.
Who is the "you" here? Your email sounds quite accusatory, but this is
a thread about using the various *masters that are paid for by Nokia.
> It's true when you say that the next months will be very important for
> the future of Maemo, but we must have clear in mind what we want to do
> with it and what users want.
Although off-topic for this thread, I think the answer to the question
"what users want" is trivial: they want continual updates to their OS,
a steady stream of enhancements and a vibrant ecosystem. What's
unclear is the best way of achieving that:
* Core MeeGo Handset port to N900
* MeeGo-Harmattan port to N900
* Maemo 5 Community SSU
Certainly in the short term, the last one is the easiest to achieve
and can even provide benefits whilst waiting for (hopefully) PR1.3.
That's what I support MohammadAG's efforts in this area.
The problem is the viability of the first two. Previous Hacker
Editions haven't had any ongoing support or vibrancy, and the first is
looking unlikely for MeeGo 1.1.
Cheers,
Andrew
--
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org | http://www.bleb.org/
Maemo Community Council chair
Re: maemo.org team meeting Tuesday the 14th?
2010-09-07 17:10 UTC
Hi,
On 7 September 2010 18:59, Andrew Flegg <andrew@bleb.org> wrote:
> Nokia, Intel, large swathes of the Maemo community and the nascent
> MeeGo community have all indicated that a "forced" migration is
> neither planned nor desirable.
let me understand better then. If neither a migration is planned, how
the Maemo Community will be related to the MeeGo one?
> Instead, people will move to the new community if they adopt a MeeGo
> device. It's not *entirely* clear if the Harmattan device will fulfill
> those criteria!
I think it will depend by the fact if MeeGo 1.1 will be available (and
usable) at least on N900. Actually we can test weekly builds of MeeGo
for handset on our N900 and it would be nice to have the final release
available too. It would create a "glue" between Maemo and MeeGo
someway.
> Who is the "you" here? Your email sounds quite accusatory, but this is
> a thread about using the various *masters that are paid for by Nokia.
I don't want to accuse anyone :)
I did mean that talking/chatting around with some people, nobody I've
talked to have a clear idea of the Maemo Community future. I think
that we should try to clarify better this point.
p.s: sorry again if sometime my words appear rude, it's not my
intention. It's just that I've very basic knowledge of english
language :\
Regards,
--
Andrea Grandi
email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
On 7 September 2010 18:59, Andrew Flegg <andrew@bleb.org> wrote:
> Nokia, Intel, large swathes of the Maemo community and the nascent
> MeeGo community have all indicated that a "forced" migration is
> neither planned nor desirable.
let me understand better then. If neither a migration is planned, how
the Maemo Community will be related to the MeeGo one?
> Instead, people will move to the new community if they adopt a MeeGo
> device. It's not *entirely* clear if the Harmattan device will fulfill
> those criteria!
I think it will depend by the fact if MeeGo 1.1 will be available (and
usable) at least on N900. Actually we can test weekly builds of MeeGo
for handset on our N900 and it would be nice to have the final release
available too. It would create a "glue" between Maemo and MeeGo
someway.
> Who is the "you" here? Your email sounds quite accusatory, but this is
> a thread about using the various *masters that are paid for by Nokia.
I don't want to accuse anyone :)
I did mean that talking/chatting around with some people, nobody I've
talked to have a clear idea of the Maemo Community future. I think
that we should try to clarify better this point.
p.s: sorry again if sometime my words appear rude, it's not my
intention. It's just that I've very basic knowledge of english
language :\
Regards,
--
Andrea Grandi
email: a.grandi [AT] gmail [DOT] com
website: http://www.andreagrandi.it
PGP Key: http://www.andreagrandi.it/pgp_key.asc
The date suggested was next Tuesday (2010-09-14). Assuming the date's acceptable for everybody, how does 1200 UTC sounds?
--
Ryan Abel Maemo Community Council member