-!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+v qgi1] by X-Fade19:49
+andre___hej hej19:49
+qgi1wow, this looks like an important meeting19:50
@X-FadeI guess it is ;)19:50
+qgi1I was thinking of blocking to avoid potential crashes between edits19:51
@X-Fadebtw for all people without voice, I can see your messages, but others don't. Please use #maemo for general discussion.19:51
+qgi1what if I protect it and then I do the secretary work of updating during the discussion19:51
@X-Fadeqgi1: Sounds like a good idea.19:51
+qgi1I'll wait 9 minutes, perhaps there is someone that still needs to update...  :)19:52
+NetBladebergie is on a way to home, so he will be joining us later on19:54
+qgi1and you are...19:55
@X-FadeNetBlade == Oskari19:55
+andre___hmm, Karsten's busy with university stuff :-/19:55
+NetBladeqgi1: Oskari19:55
+qgi1I thought good students had finished the university stuff this course19:56
+andre___he asked me to apologize for him19:56
+andre___hah, good students? :-D19:56
+qgi1X-Fade: we will start reviewing - worth putting such long URL in the topic?19:58
@X-Fadeqgi1: Looks pretty short to me:
+qgi1all this smart people around and I'm getting so old...19:58
-!- X-Fade changed the topic of #maemo-meeting to: Sprint2 meeting - Monday 30th of June 2008 18:00 UTC - Info: - - This channel is moderated, only people with voice (+v) can talk, we will open the dicussion after the status report part.20:00
+andre___qgi1: we can't find out in the internet - you can still state that you're a 19yrs old girl chatting with us :-P20:00
+qgi1it's protected now20:00
@X-FadeOk, it looks like it is time to start?20:00
+qgi1alright, so welcome to the etc etc20:01
+qgi1we will start reviewing the June sprint and then we will move to the next sprint aka Sprint220:01
+qgi1(because is the 2 of 5 of the 100 Days action plan20:01
+qgi1let's start with the first task and so on20:02
+qgi1you talk20:02
+qgi1if there is discussion go ahead20:02
+qgi1if not, the owner of the next task goes ahead20:02
@X-FadeThe first part of the API fix is done.20:02
@X-FadeThe rest we plan to do when we do a cleanup of legacy code in the downloads section..20:02
+qgi1can we "downgrade" this from task to bug, then?20:03
-!- bergie [] has joined #maemo-meeting20:03
@X-FadeBasically we use some older functionality that is now better.20:03
-!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+v bergie] by X-Fade20:03
@X-Fadeyes, it is actually ;)20:03
+qgi1"done", then?20:03
+bergiehi, all... sorry for being late... Espoo-Helsinki buses...20:04
@X-FadeYes, the rest needs to be done clean up.20:04
+qgi1there was a bug open afair, so no need to move task to sprint2, is that right?20:04
+qgi1(hi bergie)  :)20:04
+qgi1next, then20:04
+qgi1 Implement ServerInfraPlan - Marcell is on holidays20:05
+qgi1X-Fade: do you know anything?20:05
@X-FadeAs far as I know this is in the ISP's ballpark.20:05
+bergieqgi1: I heard a rumor the VMware boxes would be available now20:05
@X-FadeI'm not sure if there is a quote already.20:05
+bergiebut we haven't yet received the actual request to start the set-up20:06
@X-FadeOr if they are in the provisioning stage.20:06
+qgi1little birds said last weeks that we could get the infra from the ISP somewhere in July20:06
+bergiethe problem is... as we haven't heard about the schedule we haven't been able to book Rambo's time for it yet20:06
+qgi1ok, hopefully in the next sprint review we will have seen this old item moving forward20:06
+ferencJuly? who works in July? :)20:06
-!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+v MishaS] by X-Fade20:06
+dneary_busyhi all20:06
+dneary_busyI'm here20:07
@X-FadeI have added Mikhail Sobolev to the voiced people in the room.20:07
+dneary_busyAlthough I might have to go and give out to some kids later20:07
+qgi1MishaS: do you want to say somthing?20:07
+bergieqgi1: so, for that task the blocker is info about server availability20:07
-!- dneary_busy is now known as dneary20:07
+MishaSsorry, yes :)20:07
+MishaSquote was given last week. jarmo was asking to proceed with paperwork. probably, it's in tero's hands at the moment20:07
+bergieRambo will be back from holiday in early August20:08
+bergiewould be great to know if the servers are available by then, and if anything needs to be done about them earlier20:08
+MishaSi hoped to take it in IT teams' hands, but stefano is now on vacation as well. :(20:08
+bergietypical post-Juhannus situation :-)20:08
+qgi1sounds clear that no real progress is going to happen in Sprint220:08
+MishaSstefano left way before juhannus :)20:08
+dnearyqgi1: If you think the link is too long, you can use this one:
+qgi1ok, let's move this back to the backlog20:09
+qgi1top position20:09
+dnearyOh - X-Fade beat me to it (I'm still catching up)20:09
+qgi1dneary: your turn20:10
+qgi1 Documenting in the web development process.20:10
+dnearyqgi1: Yup20:11
+dnearyI noticed your note: "Sprint planning is described at "20:11
+qgi1do you think the task is complete?20:11
+dnearyYou've also proposed an alternate development process (Scrum)20:12
+dnearyWell, I haven't done anything towards it...20:12
+dnearybut I guess it's redundant now that we're in 100Days mode20:12
+qgi1complete, then?20:12
+qgi11, 2, 3, complete  :)20:13
+qgi1if someone misses anything, comment or file bugs20:13
+ferencyes, that's me20:13
+qgi1(or not)20:14
+qgi1improve promotion interface - Niels20:14
+dnearyWhat do ytou/others think?20:14
+dnearyIs there still a need to document how we work better?20:14
+dnearyX-Fade: Can everyone see me?20:14
+qgi1do we have lagggggg?20:15
* MishaS . o O (nobody sees dneary...)20:15
@X-FadeMisha has improved the interface a lot, I have added functionality for pam authentication..20:15
@X-Fadedneary: you have voice. That is how moderation on irc works ;)20:15
+MishaSdneary, finally :) hello :))20:15
+dnearyI think I lost my router & wifi20:16
+MishaSregarding promotion interface, there was a number of suggestions on the list.20:16
@X-FadeStyling and explanation added.20:16
+MishaSwe might consider taking them as "tasks' to the list of things to do.20:16
+dnearyBack, I hope20:16
+qgi1anything you (plural) want to commit for sprint2?20:16
+MishaSdneary, pong?20:16
+dnearyCan anyone see this?20:16
@X-FadeYes, everything done up to now was work towards making it work.20:16
+MishaSqgi1, i'm a volonteer, i do not want to commit :)20:17
+qgi1dneary: I bet we are reading everything you write20:17
+qgi1X-Fade: what should we put in sprint2, then?20:17
@X-Fadeqgi1: Improve it some more? :)20:17
+dnearySorry - Niels is telling me on Jabber that you can all see me :} (I can't see you)20:17
+MishaSx-fade: put links to suggestions people gave on the list?20:17
-!- dneary [] has left #maemo-meeting ["Ex-Chat"]20:18
+qgi1"consolidation of..."? X-Fade20:18
@X-Fadeqgi1: I will gather request and make a proposal.20:18
-!- dneary [] has joined #maemo-meeting20:18
@X-FadeWill have that this week and will plan that.20:18
-!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+v dneary] by X-Fade20:18
+dnearySorry about that folks :)20:18
+dnearyRegular service is restored20:18
+qgi1next, now yer ferenc20:19
+MishaSbtw, is this meeting logged?20:19
+ferencthanks :)20:19
@X-FadeMishaS: Yes, log will be posted.20:19
+ferenc#1309 is still not done. Karsten gave some last minutes comments when we applied his changes to
@X-FadeLogs will be posted here:
+qgi1ferenc: can you post full urls to bugs for convenience please?20:20
+ferencso, he said that account sync-ing itself would not make much sense, unless we provide a "single login" feature20:20
+qgi1what, then?20:21
+ferencso, we are wondering whether to do something now, or rather prepare for a proper "single sign-on" system that can be then used in all our web services.20:21
+qgi1full single login was decided to be too much to afford at this point20:21
+qgi1can we "sacrifice" and keep going without user merging?20:21
+qgi1(am I the only one thinkling that we have more important problems than this one?)20:22
+bergieBTW, for accounts merge the "multiple emails" feature is importany20:22
+ferencand now the guys who is charge with bugzilla hacking says that there is no point doing this half baked solution..20:22
+ferencthis is not the most important problem at all.20:22
+ferenci would put it low priority and rather study a proper solution for all the web apps we have20:22
+ferenceven the midgard-garage hack is not "proper"20:23
+qgi1proposal: put "Proper single sign-on" in the proposals list20:23
+ferencwhich was pointed out back then by Eero.20:23
+ferencqgil1: yes, i agree20:23
+qgi1if someone wants to pick it up and start defining in a wiki page, great20:23
+bergieferenc: as we saw when broken garage account dump killed half of accounts20:23
+qgi1if not, it definitely means that is low priority, at least now20:23
+ferencbergie: exactly.20:23
+ferencqgil1: ok.20:23
+qgi1ferenc: you can put low priority in the bug20:24
+qgi1and I will add the proposal to the list20:24
@X-FadeThat will be me.20:25
+qgi1(or not)  :)20:25
+qgi1Wiki reorg: dneary20:25
+MishaSplease, put to the list of tasks20:25
+dnearyThe wiki transfer is more or less complete20:25
+qgi1thanks MishaS20:25
+MishaSthis way everybody would be able to add small bits and pieces/discuss the things.20:25
+dnearyFrom my point of view, pages remaining in the old wiki which haven't been migrated should be kept indefinitely, but unless someone asks a question that one of the pages answers, we leave them there20:26
+dnearyWe now have about 50 pages in the new wiki which need "deep cleaning"20:26
+qgi1sounds good20:27
+dnearyI propose to start this week a "clean up a page a day" campaign20:27
+qgi1can you please write an announcement in, so everybody knows20:27
+MishaSdneary, i'd rather put pointers to possibly related pages in the new wiki20:27
+qgi1about the change of wiki, and update links in the home and sections20:27
+dnearyqgil: what do you mean by the home and sections?20:28
+qgi1mmm I was thinking this just in case someone wants to take part in the wiki--a-day thing or recover a page of the old wiki20:28 home and the link to the wiki in community20:28
+qgi1I don't know if there are more links20:28
+qgi1(or if we should put an automatic redirect)20:28
+dnearyI *think* the links have been taken care of20:28
+bergieqgi1: I fixed links from app catalog in SVN already, but probably style hasn't been synced yet20:28
+dnearyThey were supposed to be20:28
+dnearyAnd I announced it in my blog, but not on maemo.org20:29
+qgi1I mean, if I go now to there is a link to in the tool bar20:29
+dnearyLink's not OK on home page...20:29
+dnearyBut I'm afraid I don't know how that toolbar is generated20:30
+dnearyThere's no content in the front page20:30
+qgi1I think blogs are good, but things like announcing a deprcate wiki, move to new one and campaign to fine tune pages is wirth an official community announcement in but as you see it20:30
+bergiedneary: toolbar comes from site navigation structure, but the wiki topic there can be switched to a n.n.redirector folder20:30
+dnearyYou're right, it should have gotten more exposure20:30
+qgi1anyway, the task is completed and you can take care of the final details20:31
+qgi1no need to move this task to sprint220:31
+dnearybergie: You lost me :)20:31
+qgi1next, X-Fade20:31
+dnearyThe next task is in Sprint2 already - cleaning up the wiki20:31
+bergiedneary: maybe easiest I do it :-) though... this is covered in regular Midgard user instructions I think20:31
@X-FadeI talked to Marius Vollmer about the Application Manager and ideas brought forward by community members like:
@X-FadeMarius welcomed a proposal and was willing to give some community members access to the repository. But we need to setup rules for that, so we don't create a mess.20:32
@X-FadeThis can be a thing where the community really cooperates.20:32
+qgi1hope so20:33
+qgi1what for this sprint, then?20:33
@X-FadeI have lacked time to come up with a good proposal due to the Diablo release.20:33
+qgi1community proposal agreed?20:33
@X-FadeYes, let's do that.20:33
+qgi1could you get help from... the community?20:33
+qgi1perhaps you don't need to push this further yourself20:33
@X-FadeSure, GA's page is already a big help. We also need to set the basis for communication and setup some ground rules.20:34
+qgi1like... would GeneralAntilles like to pick this one up?20:34
+qgi1GeneralAntilles: say "NO" in 10 seconds if you disagree  ;)20:34
-!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+v GeneralAntilles] by X-Fade20:34
@X-FadeI guess that is a yes. ;)20:35
-!- mode/#maemo-meeting [+v GAN800] by X-Fade20:35
+GAN800thumbboard. ;)20:35
+GAN800I'd be happy to help, but am not interested in leading a push on it.20:35
+qgi1anyway, I'll put the task and you figure out the details20:35
@X-FadeI will follow up on it..20:35
+qgi1X-Fade leads as default, and if he cans he finds another victim? works for me20:35
+qgi1X-Fade: the next one is yours as well20:36
@X-FadeI have a script ready for updating the version numbers based on the repository.20:37
@X-FadeI need to work out where to move some scripts, but it is 80% done. So I expect to deliver that soon.20:37
@X-FadeI hope sooner, but sure.20:37
+qgi1*during* Sprint2, that starts in a couple of hours or less  ;)20:38
@X-FadeYeah, ok. Before end of Sprint 2 ;)20:39
+qgi1next, Brainstorm site: Investigate how20:39
+MishaSX-fade, have you checked in the script somewhere?20:39
+MishaSlike extras-cauldron?20:39
@X-FadeMishaS: No it is still in our internal testing machine.20:39
+MishaSx-fade, anything prevents the script for being checked in somewhere? :)20:40
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@X-FadeMishaS: No.20:40
+MishaSx-fade, go ahead then :)20:41
+qgi1ideastorm thing, NetBlade says "'''scheduled for H2'''" - which starts tomorrow but20:41
+qgi1as said today in the mailing list is not required in the 100Days20:41
+MishaSwhat this is about?20:41
+NetBladeqgi1: checked the ubuntu-site and looks fairly easy, hopefully I get it done before my holiday20:41
+NetBladethat starts after 2 weeks20:42
+bergiecgi1: we can do it quite soon, but as you marked it as not urgent20:42
+qgi1well, it is not urgent20:42
+NetBladeI reserved time for that next week20:42
+qgi1according to the community brainstorm20:42
+qgi1that put it in the 2010 agenda20:42
+qgi1in the meantime you have plenty of stuff pending20:42
+qgi1you = Nemein20:42
+qgi1so perhaps we can indeed leave this for later20:42
+qgi1and concentrate in i.e. the ITt integration20:43
* MishaS . o O (maybe putting a wiki page about this brainstorm site would help others to understand?...)20:43
+qgi1MishaS: fair point20:43
+bergieqgi1: ITt integration is on my list... but I doubt I can do much before GUADEC, and I will stay in Turkey until 24th20:43
+qgi1yes, yes, I'm only saying that i don't see a reason why to push ideastorm20:44
+qgi1on the other hand, that thing won't really work before we get Maemo SW product managers in the loop so....20:44
+qgi1step one: proposaal defined in wiki page20:44
+qgi1and I propose that we review in next sprint meeting20:45
+qgi1if someone do gets bored in this sprint... be my guest20:45
+bergieok. NetBlade: can you work next week on writing the ideastorm page?20:45
+NetBladebergie: yep20:45
+qgi1next, dneary: Publish a "Who's who in maemo",20:46
+dnearyqgil: OK20:46
+dnearyI've been waiting for this discussion impatiently :)20:46
+dnearyThe goals of the who's who list, for me were:20:47
+dneary1. Give the community a glimpse into the maemo team in Nokia20:47
* MishaS has only one goal: keep (unsure) intact :)20:47
+dneary2. Allow the Bugmasters to know who to bug about important bugs20:47
+qgi12. is covered imho through the process of dealing with Eric and the internal bugzilla20:47
+dnearyIt seems like there's some... confusion about the goals20:48
+qgi1not about the goals, but about the ways to achieve them :)20:48
+dnearyMy idea for the best way to address the goals was to publish a list of names + roles in the wiki20:48
+qgi1and my answer was that it is not good to do this for two main reasons20:49
+qgi11. you have to ask to people20:49
+qgi1because some are active in at their own risk e.g MishaS20:49
+dnearyI guess that encouraging people to update their profile, and having some nice way to list only people affiliated to Nokia would be an alternate solution20:49
+andre___qgi1, basically right that eric is my contact, but as dneary is collecting this info anyway, we can save some of eric's time ;-)20:49
+MishaSdneary, what's the value of knowing that somebody is affiliated with Nokia?20:50
+qgi1the problem is that a static list is difficult to create and very difficult to maintain, because people change project, roles and etc every now and then20:50
+dnearyMishaS: It's more about knowing roles, IMHO20:50
+MishaSdneary, I am. but what I do is not because I work for Nokia (or despite me working for Nokia :)), it's because I'd like to do something sometimes :)20:51
+dnearyAnd the people who work at Nokia have pretty well defined roles usually20:51
@X-FadeCOMMENT: * lbt thinks this should also be linked to the maemo community council (or whatever) and any community roles.20:51
+qgi1but look, Peter can be the UI contact... for Fremantle, while Mary is in fact that contact for Harmattan20:51
+MishaSdneary, my role is quite simple: keep my work away from Maemo community: they do not intersect at the moment20:51
+qgi1at the same time20:51
+dnearyMishaS: I'm definitely not picking on you :)20:51
+MishaSdneary, thank you :)20:52
+dnearyIn fact, I had a 3 phase plan:20:52
+qgi1I think the thing could work the other way round20:52
+dneary1. Document Nokia people (easy first step)20:52
+qgi1I see this qgil all the time, or this jarmo, or this kalle, or this...20:52
+MishaSdneary, the descriptions you had are far from being accurate. you'd rather put (unsure) for everybody from your list and ask for updates.20:52
+qgi1and I have an easy way to know who are these guys and what do they do at Nokia20:52
+dneary2. Document external contractors (trickier second step, since sometimes there's complete abstraction, other times there isn't and we have a public face)20:52
+qgi1I go and I check their profile20:52
+dneary3. Document community contributors20:52
+qgi1those that don't show up, do it for a reason i.e. busy, working with :::::: stuff etc20:52
+qgi13. Document community contributors karma should highlight them, that was the idea20:53
+qgi1not perfect, but I guess better than any static list20:54
+qgi1anyway, let's not get stuck here20:54
+dnearyOK - so if we can distill the discussion down: what concrete action are you proposing?20:54
+qgi1I'm happy discussing this further at the end of this meeting or by mail20:54
+dnearyDo we consider that the karma list of people "documents" our community?20:54
* MishaS nods to gqi120:54
+qgi1Highlight nokians in the users list?20:55
+dnearyYes, you're right, it's a bit of a rat-hole20:55
* MishaS . o O (there are nokians and there are nokians...)20:55
+dnearyLet's talk later.20:55
+dnearyI think the problem is I'm just not sure what the goal is, and how to achieve it20:55
+qgi1later  :)20:55
+qgi1now: Documenting companies involved in maemo development20:56
+dnearyThe conclusion we arrived at is that we'd list individuals where that made semse (me, Niels, Andre, Karsten) and companies otherwise20:56
+dnearyI have a list, probably partial, to send you20:56
+dnearyI could send it directly to a public list, but I prefer you have a glance at it & tell me if there's anyone obvious missing, or anyone on there that shouldn't be for some reason20:57
@X-FadeCOMMENT: < Jaffa> When it says "companies involved in maemo development" - is that companies paid to develop Maemo, or companies developing applications for Maemo?20:58
+qgi1I think if _you_ noticed that a company collaborates with Nokia is because it's not so secret anyway  ;)20:58
+qgi1Jaffa: it can be both20:58
+qgi1it's just part of "Defining Maemo" and who is around20:59
+qgi1getting the full list of Nokia subcontractors is tricky but actually it's not needed20:59
+dnearyI'm conscious of having less time with GUADEC + OSCon + LSM this sprint cycle, so I'm more or less happy to continue the items already on my plate20:59
+qgi1what starting with those companies already in the public wiki pages21:00
+dnearyPlus one more - "finalising selection criteria for logo contest" - to be added later21:00
+qgi1and make a nice page in with logos an blobs21:00
+qgi1then next, Registration and sponsorship for maemo summit21:00
+NetBladeqgi1: I'm just writing a mail to you about it21:01
+bergieqgi1: it is on internal.m.o for testing21:01
+qgi1ref "I'm just writing a mail to you about it"21:02
+qgi1we ahave a problem  :)21:02
+qgi1I keep insisting that you should bring all this to the list and in public21:02
+qgi1you keep communicating with me only, internally21:02
+qgi1when in fact everybody in that list or following the wiki page can contribute to this registration21:03
+NetBladebasicly, there is a form that only users with account can use21:03
+NetBladeand they can see who else have registered to that event21:03
+bergie...and admins have the list of registrars where they can approve sponsorship reqs21:03
+qgi1I don't know how secure is to post url's to the internal (aka testing) Midgard installation, but at least please send it to the crew so they can test as well21:04
+bergieqgi1: internal is protected on firewall level21:04
+bergieand the URLs don't contain any user info21:04
+qgi1for sprint2 (and in fact for this week, since we have slipped many weeks already) we should have the registration open and working21:04
+bergie(except registration or event GUIDs which are meaningless)21:04
+qgi1then please share URLs so those with access can test and give feedback, also public in the list21:05
+qgi1I don't want to be a single bottleneck  :)21:05
+bergiehere is the admin UI:
+bergieunfortunately I can't access it from home either21:06
+qgi1Good, I will put the task to launch registration in sprint2 - top urgent21:06
+qgi1NetBlade: anything else?21:06
+qgi1next: Triage current Maemo bugs with critical severity/high priority21:07
+andre___ah, me. DONE21:07
+NetBladeqgi1: well, no, actually, just finishing those mails and that's about the mail I'm writing to you21:07
+andre___blockers, critical and high are all cleaned up and correctly assigned now21:07
+qgi1NetBlade: thanks21:07
+qgi1andre___: and "just" for that you (plural) have won a big dose of credibility in da haus21:08
+andre___oh, really? nice to hear, thanks21:08
+qgi1* Clean up old non-enhancement bugs......21:09
+andre___This is in progress. Highest priority is of course triaging new incoming bugs (and now that Diablo is out we get much more new reports), but this will continue and we have already triaged quite a few old bugs21:09
+qgi1should we put this in the sprint or is it like regular task21:10
+qgi1I'm not sure if all those regular tasks should be in the sprint, actually21:10
+andre___Hmm, for me it's aregular ongoing task21:10
+andre___this is the unpleasant repetitive gruntwork, so to say with Luis Villa's words :-P21:10
+qgi1better not, so externals can see what are the tasks to get concentrated now?21:10
+andre___if in doubt keep it for the sake of transparency :-)21:11
+qgi1well, for transparency you have (next point) Come up with a Triage Guide21:11
+qgi1which is about the "unpleasant repetitive gruntwork"21:11
+andre___That item has not yet started. Definitely on our list for the next 14 days.21:11
+MishaS(sorry, /me has to go...21:11
+MishaSsee you21:11
-!- MishaS [] has quit ["gone for good"]21:11
+qgi1thanks MishaS !21:12
+qgi1ok, so this goes for sprint221:12
+qgi1usability enhancement...21:12
+andre___This is in progress, entirely Karsten's business so far. Most important enhancements are done, reporting tools and e.g. colored quoting in bug reports pending. Karsten blogged about the finished parts a few days ago, and received positive feedback21:13
+qgi1"reporting tools pending" do you know if this is something to b completed in one sprint?21:13
+qgi1or I can just put placeholder and then Karsten can edit later on21:14
+andre___hmm. good question, don't know *exactly* how much of the work is done21:14
+qgi1ok, placeholder and he will conclude21:14
+andre___yeah, let's have karsten editing this, he knows much better21:14
+qgi1next, bergie - forum interface21:14
@X-Fadeqgi1: I think he is away, please continue..21:16
+bergieqgi1: we still need to reimport all emails. I need the mbox files21:16
@X-FadeAh ;)21:16
+ferencbergie: you can get them.21:16
+qgi1what has been done this sprint?21:16
@X-Fadebergie: We can give you those.21:16
+bergiethe problem is mailman config was changed at some point and the importer has only the list signature instead of message content in the forum :-(21:17
+qgi1can be complted in sprint2?21:17
+bergiethe forums are there and operational, only if we got the contents in21:17
+qgi1can we open them so others can test?21:18
+qgi1let's do that, then21:18
+qgi1User profile improvements defined and started21:18
+bergieqgi1: I redesigned the user profile page structure but didn't do the HTMLs yet21:19
+qgi1can you share any mockup or something?21:19
+qgi1this is imo another case where work could be done more in the open if only to know that you are working on this21:20
+bergieI wanted to announce something a bit more "clickable" but I can publish the mock-up, sure21:21
+qgi1maemo2midgard list and wiki21:22
+ferencthe old list will end its life today21:22
+ferencas i mailed you the big rehearsal of the import was tested.21:23
+ferenci will close the list soon after this meeting, let's say 1200 Finnish time21:23
+ferencthen do the import and mail everyone to get used to the new address.21:23
+ferencthe wiki pages have not been imported at all.21:23
+qgi1do you need to import them?21:24
+ferenccopy paste21:24
+qgi1I mean, people can import whatever is useful21:24
+ferencsome of them would make sense21:24
+ferencwell, fine...21:24
+ferencthe old wiki will not go away either.21:24
+ferencwe should just stop using it.21:24
+bergiecgi1: sorry to jump around, but... about the lists21:24
+dnearyWill you post one final "this list is dead" message before closing it?21:24
+qgi1and if anybody misses anything then he can do the copy paste21:25
+bergieI was just reminded that Rambo has requested "lurker" email addresses from Nokia (old ones were in our mail server) but AFAIK hasn't gotten them21:25
+ferencdneary: i already posted an indication of that, but yes, i will send an other email too.21:25
+qgi1bergie: ???21:25
+bergiewe need an IMAP box that is subscribed to a list (one per list)21:25
+ferencbergie: let's talk about that offline21:25
@X-Fadebergie: Let's settle that off-irc.21:26
+bergiesure... that is just a blocker Scrum-wise :-)21:26
+ferencqgi1: got my update?21:26
+qgi1ferenc: ?21:26
+qgi1what where21:26
+ferenci am i am done, so you can call the next victim21:27
+ferenci mean... sorry..21:27
+qgi1ok, so we can consider this task complete and you will complete it right after the meeting21:27
+qgi1next, I start21:27
+qgi1Clean up the Intro section - Peter21:27
+qgi1so peter did the work in the wiki21:27
+qgi1and dave started moving the stuff to intro (thanks!)21:28
+dnearyIt's extremely frustrating at the moment though21:28
+dnearyMidgard is soooo slooow21:28
+dneary(don't mean to pick on bergie, but...)21:29
@X-Fadedneary: No, it is the server.21:29
+ferencdneary:never forget that box runs other systems as well.21:29
+dnearyFrom what I've heard, it's staying up, which is an improvement over the last release :)21:29
+dnearyferenc: Indeed, and I have the impression that MediaWiki has added quite some load21:29
+ferencdneary: improvement suggestions on system configuration are more than welcome!21:29
+dnearyferenc: I'm just saying that when I try to connect to a https link it's painful21:30
+qgi1this has to do with the server infra upgrade discussed at the beginning21:30
+qgi1Wiki reorg/100 days: Review all pages migrated to the new wiki, no pages remaining in Category:Midgard article by the end of the month21:30
+dnearyAnyway, I will struggle on :)21:30
+dnearyThis was already discussed21:31
+dnearyThis is the "clean community docs in wiki" bug21:31
+qgi1 next is ]: Propose initial sets of official documents to migrate21:31
+dnearyI've been talking to the Nokia documentation team about permission structures & importing material21:32
+dnearyWe're going to do a test run on one package, I believe they're ready to do it this week21:32
+dnearyhtml2wiki wasn't quite up to the task... a lot of re-editing to be done21:32
+dnearyBut I think the ball for this is in Nokia's court now? There's a plan to wiki-ise the official 4.1 docs, no?21:33
+qgi1sorry to ask but... who is Nokia documentation team?21:33
+ferenc qgi1: great question, thanks!21:34
+qgi1I mean, I need names to know21:34
+dnearyOK - it's the people you sent to me :)21:35
+qgi1I'm not sure  :), we are mikxing two topics21:35
+dnearyLet me search for name...21:35
+qgi1anyway, you saw my email in the list this afternoon about taks coming from Nokia21:35
+dnearyOlli & Quanyi21:35
+qgi1about I think you are done and you can reassign to Jarmo Tikka since the wiki-fication is on his basket now21:36
+dnearyThat's what I thought21:36
+qgi1about these two, please add me in the CC21:36
@X-FadeCOMMENT: < lbt> is this a one-off or will wiki be an output for future docs?  and how will comments get back into the docs?21:36
+qgi1I think there is some misunderstanding21:36
+qgi1lbt, see and c1521:37
+qgi1ok, the thing is that you can pass the bug and this goes out of the sprint+backlog in the work21:38
+qgi1I think we are done with the tasks21:39
+qgi1I propose we make a little break21:39
+qgi110 mins21:39
+ferencyes... agree21:39
+qgi1or **:5021:39
* andre___ throws a round of virtual cigarettes21:39
+qgi1ooook, we will continue with the new tasks21:40
+dnearyOK - in 10 mins21:41
+dnearyOr Marcel of BlueZ?21:46
+qgi1toc toc21:50
+qgi1while you arrive21:50
+qgi1we have spent 1h40 reviewing the last sprint21:51
+qgi1and now we have
+qgi1+ your comments about progress in the garage wiki page + here in the irc log21:51
+qgi1if everybody does the homework properly we might have this done in 45' easily21:52
+qgi1properly means before the meeting  :)21:52
+qgi1are you there now?  :)21:52
+ferencso you were just expecting: done or not done type of answers/updates?21:52
+ferencif yes, then let's just do that next time.21:53
+qgi1no, updates as extensive as you have give them, just written in advance21:53
+ferencaha, ok.21:53
+qgi1 needs some cleaning but there we go21:54
+qgi1andre___:  Start nagging developers on urgent issues21:54
+ferenci still used the old wiki page for status update.21:54
+qgi1ferenc: sure, and that is the right thig to do21:54
+ferencok, let's continue.21:55
+andre___As we can't change the way the Nokia developers work from one day to another, we currently copy reports to the internal bug tracking system. So there's not much progress yet **in public**, however so far I'm content with the bug handling of our forwarded bug reports in the internal system. And there have been quite some good reports in Maemo Bugzilla of course. Big thanks to our users here. :-)21:55
+qgi1in fact I spent some time moving dneary PROGRESS comments21:55
+andre___To long-term answer this item, together with tickets #10 and #11 from the backlog:21:55
+qgi1from sprint2 to the sprint1/June page21:55
+andre___To really effectively improve this, it needs some discussions to work out, e.g. involving also the product managers (currently only error managers) and convince devs to partially change the way they are currently working (means: also act in Maemo Bugzilla, not only in the internal system).21:55
+andre___We definitely expect improvements in the next months, and I'm happy to see that a few Nokia developers already act in Nokia Bugzilla and support us in asking "useful" questions to get better feedback. Anyway, that's why it is in the backlog, it's a long term project. :-)21:55
+dnearyqgi1: Ah - sorry, I misunderstood things21:55
+andre___(writing answers in advance saves time, oh yeah. :-)21:55
+qgi1just to make it clear:21:55
+ferencandre___: very good example :)21:55
+qgi1sprint1 page needs to end up having all the information on what happened in that sprint21:56
+dnearyI had understood "completed actions in old page, anything incomplete/carried over to the new page"21:56
+qgi1all progress is reported in the page of the sprint where the progress was done  :)21:56
+qgi1makes sense21:56
+qgi1Sprint2 page will accumulat info on all the progress we do during this sprint21:57
+qgi1sprint3 shouldn't contain progress on sprint2 and etc21:57
+dnearyGot it21:57
+qgi1andre___: is this a task to put in a sprint or one of those regular things to do?21:57
+andre___definitely regular21:58
+qgi1anyway, July is not the best month to do any progress with Nokia internals, so...21:58
+andre___definitely ;-)21:58
+qgi1at least not in the Helsinki offices  :)21:58
+dnearyIn France it's August :)21:59
+dnearyWant to know when the maemo team is taking holidays?21:59
+qgi1in Maemo SW 50% are finns 50% rest of the worls (aka august) so...21:59
+dnearyShould we mail the lists with this type of stuff?21:59
+qgi1lists no, but wiki why not21:59
* dneary is gone the last two weeks of August on holiday21:59
+qgi1it would be useful to know when we are having holidays21:59
+qgi1 Define policies for things like editbugs dneary22:00
+dnearyAdd in GUADEC + OSCon, I'll be losing a month's work time over the next 2 months22:00
+dnearyThat's not been at the top of my TODO list22:00
+dnearyMy policy would be "publish the address where people should ask for permissions, and give them to everyone who asks (within reason)22:01
+qgi1it's one of the things the community can push if they feel like doing so22:01
+dnearyie. The GNOME policy22:01
+qgi1in order to have a clean backlog I propose to move to Proposals those tasks that have no clear explanation, nor a clear priority22:02
+dnearyI think it's important to have some document of community policies like this - for sure editbugs is the least important, svn commit access is probably the most important22:02
+andre___dneary: does GNOME have a policy for this? :-D Normally developers and triagers just ping in #bugs for permissions22:02
+ferencqgi1: yes, i agree22:02
+dnearyandre___: There's a process on the bugsquad page in lgo, "send an email to bugmaster@"22:03
+qgi1 Proposal for
+andre___ah. nice :-D That's probably the official way, yes.22:03
+qgi1looks like going to "Proposals"  :)22:03
+dnearyAh - it's actually in the Triaging FAQ22:04
+qgi1"# Documenting better Nokia contributions to open source projects"22:05
+andre___yeah, we want a Triage Guide too22:05
+qgi1it's in the backlog, and in fact I was proposing it again, hum...22:05
+dnearyqgil: You've started the page in the wiki22:05
+qgi1[[Task:Maemo_contributions]] to open source projects - Quim - Proposed for Sprint522:05
+dnearyI can drive that a bit, but not before September22:05
+qgi1so not for now22:05
+dnearyWe think alike22:06
+qgi1this is part of 100Days22:06
+qgi1"Karma plugin for MediaWiki?."22:06
+qgi1"News archives improved." bergie22:07
+dnearyIt's only important if karma means something22:07
+bergiethat was in H2 plans22:07
+qgi1not this sprint22:07
+dnearyAnd we seem to be heading for a situation where karma's important22:07
+bergiedneary: karma is an activity counter... and yeah, it has a meaning in things like developer device programs and maemo summits22:08
+qgi1dneary: but wiki karma is tricky, as discussed in the past in the mailing list, so n o hurries22:08
+dnearybergie: And now council elections22:08
+bergieah, true22:08
+dnearyI know22:08
+dnearyI think a log rule works best22:08
+qgi1anyway not crucial, I'd say22:09
+qgi1getting 50 karma points is really easy if you do follow anything and do something apart from lurking, no matter what22:09
+qgi1much more important is the ITt thing22:09
+qgi1in terms of karma, i mean22:09
+qgi1bergie: News archives improved.22:10
+qgi1not this sprint?22:10
+bergieqgi1: I think not... I have only 1.5 weeks available this July... early August would be better22:10
+qgi1anyway, it will go out of the backlog for not being documented anywhere (50% my fault)22:11
+qgi1 Bug 2179 aka Karma for applications22:11
@X-FadeThis can be done in multiple ways, but I don't think I can do that in Sprint2.22:12
+bergieqgi1: yeah, Aug/Sep I think22:12
+qgi1ok, not urgent either22:12
+qgi1# Porting to handle API documentation22:13
+qgi1moved to proposals since there is a lot of juice behind this nice statement22:13
+qgi1Start collecting product specific standard "need more info" questions to improve.....  andre___22:13
+andre___This takes some time, of course. It's about collecting knowledge at . To explain how we work: If I don't know how to improve a bug, I currently mostly search in ITT or in old bug reports, or sometimes contact developers directly to find out what to ask for, if I already know who to ask.22:14
+andre___We want good and quality reports before a developer spends time to look at them, that's what triaging is about.22:14
+andre___GAN800, timeless, Eero and others have been really helpful here so far, really thanks, guys!22:14
+qgi1can this be condered part of Bug Squad thingy?22:14
+qgi1ok, out22:14
+dnearyqgi1: For the dgo/lgo thing, I had the impression that was under maemo 2010, rather than 100Days22:15
+qgi1this is the backlog22:15
+qgi1it should anything until 2200 or something  ;)22:15
+qgi1then we commit what we commit for the next sprint22:15
+dnearyah, i c.22:16
+qgi1assign all open bugs to correct default assignees... andre___22:16
+qgi1ongoing/regular task?22:16
+andre___already answered before ^^ (22:55)22:17
+qgi1you rule man22:17
+andre___definitely takes some time to sort that out22:17
+qgi1ok, we have a quite clean ...22:17
+qgi1not for a long time22:17
+qgi1now we will go trhough the new proposals22:17
+qgi1and see which ones are ready to go to the backlog or the current sprint22:18
+qgi1if in the backlog, in which position approx22:18
+qgi1 Official review of Task:Maemo brand, a task that is in fact completed - Quim - Proposed for Sprint222:18
+qgi1well, it wasn't planned but then I saw that summer was coming22:18
+qgi1and any relevant decision was either made in june or then september, at least inside nokia22:19
+qgi1this is why I started and almost completed22:19
+qgi1this is just for formal review, since I have got feedback basically only from GeneralAntilles and few more (thanks!)22:19
+qgi1Improvements on [[Task:Sprint progress]], or at least progress reporting. - Quim - Proposed for Sprint222:20
+dnearySuggestion: daily reports seems too frequent to me22:20
+qgi1did you have a chance to look at
+qgi1well, most of us are paid to work part time or more22:21
+ferencyes, i did. i agree to the proposal, let's try it out.22:21
+dnearyIn fact, I think it might have the opposite effect of the one desired - seeing daily reports go by will give people outside of the people paid by Nokia the impression that tasks are only open to those paid by Nokia22:21
+qgi1if you do work every day part time, then doing a brief update of 2/sentences won't hurt22:21
@X-Fadedneary: It is just microreports. Like jaiku ;)22:21
+qgi1if you opt for working just some days a wekk, do the update then22:21
+dnearyI understand :)22:21
+qgi1if you disappear 10 days and then work 35ha day the rest of the month...22:21
+dnearyReports go to maemo-community?22:22
+qgi1when I say 2/3 sentence I do mean that22:22
+qgi1to the wiki22:22
+dnearyto the sprint page?22:22
+qgi1"Instead, it's easy to update (ideally daily) your status in a wiki page by telling in 3 sentences:"22:22
+qgi1we can have a subpage just for that22:23
+dnearyOK, let's try it22:23
+qgi1"will give people outside of the people paid by Nokia the impression that tasks are only open to those paid by Nokia"22:23
+qgi1excepts that all those taks are handled in pages saying  "Add yourself if you are interested." and things like that22:24
+dnearyqgil: I'm thinking back to a situation I've seen before22:24
+dnearyWeekly reports were required on a project I was working on, and employees sent their weekly reports religiously22:24
+dnearyAnything which got included in those weekly reports as "working on..."22:24
+dnearynever got worked on by anyone else22:25
+qgi1what I have seen is 6 months (at least) of lack of visibility on what is people doing, leading easily to delays and less work/progress than expected in the previous sprint by anybody22:25
+qgi1I think currently is too easy to hide  :)22:25
+qgi1we have just seen it in yet one sprint more imvho22:25
+dnearyOK. Like I said, let's try it :)22:25
+qgi1in any case, here we decide only to put this task in this sprint22:26
+qgi1then of course we sort out the details by doing and improving22:26
+qgi1anything else about this task?22:26
+qgi1[[Task:Components and packages]] that define Maemo - Soumya - Proposed for Sprint222:26
+qgi1I have talked with Soumya22:27
+qgi1aka project manager of the Maemo SDK22:27
+qgi1and she commits to this one22:27
+qgi1* [[Task:Remarkable community projects]] around Maemo - Volunteers needed (Quim is looking for them) - Proposed for Sprint322:28
+qgi1I started this weekend as a hobby22:28
+qgi1I find suspicious that the best community projects are triaged by a Nokia employee  :)22:28
+qgi1this is why I don't want to continue and complete this one22:28
+qgi1I think the intend and direction is set, if someone wants somethig different/better, go ahead22:29
+qgi1anybody in the audience wants to take it?22:29
+dnearyQuestion: (I'm going to get the name as the guy who always asks questions)22:29
+ferenchow about asking iTT's Reggie?22:29
+qgi1I asked in ITT22:30
+dnearyI have the impression that you're hoping for someone outside the inner circle - is that right?22:30
+dnearyI mean, I could take this on, but I get the feeling you'd like there to be a community volunteer championning this22:30
+qgi1What I think it doesn't matter  :)22:31
+qgi1to get the task at least in the backlog, one day in a sporint and completed (within the 100Days) is what matters22:32
+qgi1so I propose we put in the backlog, still orphan22:32
+qgi1and hopefully someone i.e. "you" picks it up22:32
+ferencwe need an editor who kinda throws in reviews of maemo apps every now and then. he could then gather his squad of monitoring apps.22:32
+ferencwriting reviews might stimulate things...22:32
+dnearyqgi1: We have a pretty decent page now, with about 50 proposed projects22:33
+dnearyGAN800 has been organising it22:33
+GeneralAntillesI just poked at the formatting a bit, it's mostly been itT people as far as I can tell.22:33
+dnearyLet's keep it in Strint 2, and promote whatever list of applications is there at the end of the sprint22:33
+qgi1to the backlog, then, it's in decent state to be accepted as a task - do you agree?22:33
* ferenc nods22:34
+dnearyNo-one's "officially" co-ordinating, but I'll keep my eye on it (along with GeneralAntilles)22:34
+qgi1on top of the upstream contributions?22:34
* NetBlade needs to bail out, good night all22:34
+qgi1in the backlog i mean22:34
+dnearyferenc: The Pearls have been changing fairly frequently...22:34
+ferencdneary: yeah, noticed it.22:35
+qgi1* [[Task:Upstream projects]] Maemo relies upon - Volunteers needed (Quim is looking for them) - Proposed for Sprint322:35
+qgi1this is something IO could do but others as well22:35
+qgi1it's all public information22:35
+dnearyI can make a start at it.22:36
+qgi1backlog or sprint2?22:36
+qgi1* [[Task:Maemo_public_roadmapping_process]] - Quim - Proposed for Sprint522:37
+qgi1this is totally in my court22:37
+qgi1* Document explaining the open source positioning and strategy of Nokia in Maemo. - Quim - Proposed for Sprint522:37
+qgi1this is something that was requested in the 100days brainstorm22:38
+qgi1in my court totally22:38
+qgi1* Introduce [[Maemo package source status|license and open/closed status]] to the [[Task:Components_and_packages|list of packages]] - Soumya?22:38
+qgi1well, this is something to be done by someone next to the machinery22:39
+qgi1can be extracted because it's public information but...22:39
+qgi1hopefully when Soumya is done with this sprint she can commit to 3 or 4 or 522:39
+qgi1backlog since it's part of 100days22:39
+qgi1* Explanation of the reasons why the closed source packages are closed - Quim22:40
+qgi1clearly in my court22:40
+qgi1let's see what can I do in the 100days22:40
+qgi1at least explain the main principles why22:40
+qgi1package by package, we'll see how far I go but I guess the important is to start22:40
+dnearyOne other thing (in case it gets missed)22:41
+dnearylogo contest selection process22:41
+qgi1Process to [[Source petition for example package|request a closed source package to be open]] - volunteers needed.22:41
+dnearyOh, sorry - thought you were finished22:41
+qgi1let's finish the new proposals and then more ok22:41
+qgi1this one, I have put it in the proposals because it is part of the 100Days but it's rather incomplete,22:42
+qgi1GeneralAntilles can explain more perhaps22:42
+GeneralAntillesI can help set up the framework for the wiki (templates, etc) for the open/closed stuff.22:42
+GeneralAntillesProbably need some more information from somebody Nokia on how they might like to see it put together, though.22:42
+qgi1as usual I can provide all kinds of feedback22:43
+GeneralAntillesA procedure needs to be set down for the petitioning process.22:43
+qgi1backlog or sprint2 or do you prefer to discuss further next sprint?22:43
+qgi1I can put it to backlog and then feel free to push it as much as you want22:44
+GeneralAntillesSounds like a plan.22:44
+qgi1* Review the [ Maemo contribution guidelines] - Quim22:45
+qgi1the thing is22:45
+qgi1I'm not a developer, nor an IPR guy22:45
+qgi1it would be good that someone would define expectations, good practices etc22:45
+qgi1then I can do the "connecting people" and push things forward22:46
+qgi1but I feel like not having enough knowledge/perspoective to gt this started myself22:46
+ferencwhere are the "maemo lawyers"?22:46
+qgi1in Espoo and Helsinki22:46
+ferencno, i meant the guys who are often sound like lawyers on the lists22:47
+ferencthis would be a nice place for them to join the project22:47
+andre___...does this only cover legal stuff or also e.g. patch guidelines?22:47
+qgi1well, we can keep it in proposals and ask for... a proposal?22:47
+qgi1andre___: everything22:47
+qgi1but we can start with the basics22:48
* andre___ had in mind for an example of patch guidelines22:48
+qgi1if someone can start a wiki page and collect expectations22:48
+qgi1what is wrong now22:48
+qgi1and good practices22:48
+qgi1then I can start getting a story out of this22:49
+bergieall right, time to go to sleep... thanks for the meeting!22:49
+qgi1sounds like a move to reviewed proposals22:49
+ferencqgi1: yes.22:49
+ferencbergie: night22:49
+qgi1refresh (and forget about formatting problems now)22:50
+qgi1oook what else as tasks22:50
+dnearyFor now, I'm unsure whether there's a technical, procedural or legal issue to resolve22:50
-!- bergie [] has quit []22:50
+qgi1more specific question: what else needs to be done in Sprint222:51
+dnearyFinalise selection process for new logo22:51
+dnearyEssentially, theer are 2 schools of thought - vote or selection22:51
+dnearyI'm all for selection22:51
+dnearyI think someone needs to draw a line in the sand22:51
+dnearyAnd I'm sure this someone will get flak22:51
+dnearyI can draw the line22:52
+qgi1I think everybody here understands that selection is the way22:52
+GeneralAntillesJust throw this at anybody who wonders why voting is the "wrong way". ;)
+qgi1but then, who22:53
+dnearyI'll invite 4 or 5 prominent & qualified community members to judge, announce the judges and "announce" that they're going to select the logo22:53
+dnearyAnd then watch the fireworks go off22:53
+qgi1many of the names I proposed are now active in the contest22:53
+qgi1and Dave... why you had to blog about your favorites?  :)22:53
+dnearyWell, you've set up one rule - no Nokia employees22:53
+dnearyI wasn't going to judge anyway - I was rustling up candidates :)22:54
+qgi1so do we have names?22:54
+dnearyI'd go for jimmac or tigert for one22:54
+qgi1tigert is a nokia employee, if that matters22:54
+qgi1and jimmac... does he know about the maemo community?22:55
+qgi1(I'm beig nevil's advocate now)22:55
+dnearyIt does since you said no Nokia employees would be involved in the selection process22:55
+dnearyAnd indeed, jimmac's not a maemo guy22:55
+qgi1you figure that out publicly and now you have a deadline  :)22:55
+qgi1(you had it before anyway)  ;)22:56
+qgi1but no need to discuss more on voting, agreed?22:56
+qgi1has submitted logos22:56
+qgi1what else needs to be done in this sprint?22:57
+qgi1ah, in fact one thing22:57
+qgi1check c-base22:57
+andre___"check" means?22:57
+qgi1I'll be in Berlin on July 17 or something, a thursday22:57
+qgi1go and make the deal with them22:57
+qgi1because via email and phone calls is kind of not enough22:57
+qgi1(which is otoh what I expect from an urban underground collective)  :)22:58
+qgi1what else, sprint2?22:58
+qgi1oook, don't go to sleep yet22:59
* ferenc hiding...22:59
+qgi1do you want 10 mins break or just go ahead?22:59
+ferenclet's continue22:59
@X-FadePlease go ahead. It is nearing my bed time too ;)22:59
+qgi1please put in the sprint page who is responsible of which component23:00
+qgi1and do list there the bugs you are dealing with in the sprint223:00
+ferencok. deadline for that?23:00
+qgi1now we have 11 HIGH:
+qgi1ferenc: what about tomorrow23:00
+ferenctomorrow 10AM (UTC+3) ?23:00
+qgi1it's really 5 mins23:01
+ferencyes, i will do my part right after this meeting.23:01
+qgi1Some of those HIGH don't look too HIGH to me23:02
+qgi1and actually some have been wandering around for months (years)23:02
+qgi1wither they are HIGH and we do have them in the top of priorities23:02
* dneary doesn't know what to do with "desktop files not documented properly"23:02
+qgi1or in fact they are not, and move them as MEDIUM/LOW23:02
+dnearybut I want to get it out of the way23:03
+qgi1dneary: close it23:03
+ferencdneary: mark WONTFIX. if people are intested they will reopen23:03
+dnearyI suggested documenting the file format in the wiki, and closing the bug23:03
+qgi1then do just that23:03
+ferencdneary: unless you can do it yourself.23:03
+ferencif you have to wait for info, then WONTFIX23:03
+ferencmy 2 cents23:03
+qgi1what is not worth is to get a HIGH bug stuck just because23:03
+qgi1any other comment about those HIGH?23:04
* ferenc checking23:04
+andre___630 is something ongoing and long-term, but to keep people happy i'd also keep it as "high".23:04
+andre___setting it to medium would probably make them burn down my house :-P23:05
* GeneralAntilles gets on that bandwagon. :P23:05
+qgi1Comment                        #22 from              Andre Klapper                                     2008-06-20 15:46:23 GMT+323:05
+qgi1you are indeed working on it, so I don't see the problem23:05
+andre___heh. okay :-)23:05
+qgi1it is not about completing HIGH bugs, it's about pushing them regularly until they are resolved in a way or another23:05
+ferenc happened because i have tried to restart the web server a few times while figuring out the best settings for the wiki and the caching daemon23:05
+qgi1otherwise, withr medium/low or wontfix etc23:06
+ferenc #3280: will be around until we get the new boxes.23:06
+ferencsomeone should by the way push the ISP to get us a quote, finally.23:06
+qgi1that's fine, just state that in the bug and everybody understands the progress or lack of it due to dependencies23:07
+ferencqgi1: ok, will do.23:07
+qgi1ferenc: Misha alrady said we have a quote and etc, the ball is moving23:07
+ferencqgi1: oops, missed that., nice.23:07
+qgi1anything else about HIGH?23:07
+qgi1GeneralAntilles filed a bug as HIGH, which is not normal procedure but ok23:08
+qgi1just to make sure, ferenc do you agree?23:08
+ferencqgi1: the quote and the ISP thing is in wrong hands!!!23:08
+ferencqgi1: the guy who is responsible for that is on vacation. i am substituting him and i have not seen the quote.23:08
+qgi1and what other hands do you se in July, but this is internal discussion23:09
+ferencqgi1: mine and Misha's, plus the boss of Marcell.23:09
+ferencthese 3 guys should  be able to review and decide on the quote.23:09
+qgi1ferenc: this is internal discussion, I don't talk about Nokia managers and budgets here23:09
+qgi1among other things because I'm not following that23:10
+ferencyes, but many things we discuss here are pending on the crappy infra23:10
+qgi1Misha, Tero Salminen, be my guest23:10
+qgi1bug 334123:10
+ferenc:) right. offline email discussion starting form tomorrow.23:10
+qgi1anyway, it's late23:11
+qgi1we assume what is HIGH is HIGH23:11
+qgi1now, MEDIUM:
@X-Fadeqgi1: Url is too long ;)23:12
+qgi1we have said many times that MEDIUM are the bugs proposed for the current sprint by you23:12
+ferencsorry: just back to the high for a second: the wiki plugins will be installed in a day.23:12
+qgi1should we assume that we want to add 44 bugs to our work?23:12
+andre___uff. 44 medium bugs?!23:12
+dneary128 for me23:13, please ;)23:13
+dnearyOh - 'scuse me, that includes high & low23:13
+qgi1I guess not, so please put down to LOW what you really don't want to propose for a next sprint23:13
+qgi1can all you please llook through and suggest bugs to move to high?23:14
+andre___shall i mass-move the Maemo Diablo Reference Manual bugs to low?23:15
+qgi1andre___: is it possible to get a list like that one but including the assignee (not for now, could be useful for next reviews, I guess it's only a report)23:15
+qgi1yep, since they are being dealt out of our sprints anyway23:15
+qgi1and not in the following 20 days23:16
+andre___i don't think it's possible without changing code, let me take a look23:16
+ferenc the "one documentation tool" is now shifted to mediawiki. so it is not midgard anymore, if i am right.23:16
+ferenc#2346 can be moved to low, imho23:16
@X-FadeOk, I'll start. I don't think I have time in Sprint 2 to work on additional bugs. (Other than urgent ones)23:16
+qgi1there are three considered "major"23:17
+ferenc can remain here, i will take it.23:17
@X-FadeOk, 3354 is something for Ferenc and Me ;)23:17
+ferencand fix it within this sprint.23:18
+dneary3205 is the opportunity for me to learn how to modify official docs23:18
+andre___feel free to assign it to you23:18
+dnearyI may not have the permissions necessary, but I'll see how far I can get23:18
+qgi1it refers to 4.0 docs when 4.1 are out23:18
+ferenc3354: assigned to myself.23:19
+qgi1anyway, I suggest to add one task visibly in this sprint23:19
+qgi1triage our own components to put everything on the right priority/severity23:20
+qgi1Personally, I'm not even certain that all components are being effectively watched by an owner23:20
+qgi1I want to be proven wrong23:20
+ferencqgi1: ok23:20
+qgi1rest of you, what do you think?23:21
+dnearyqgi1: And indeed in 4.1 the sentence is added23:21
+qgi1anyway, new task added23:22
+qgi1coordinator: andre___  :)23:23
+qgi1I think we are done23:23
+qgi1I'll clean the page and de-protect it23:23
+dnearyNot from me23:23
+ferencqgi1: yes. done.23:23
+dnearyWill we talk tomorrow about who's who?23:23
+qgi1thaaaank you very much23:23
+dnearyOr now?23:23
+dneary(tomorrow, tomorrow...)23:24
+ferencthanks! good night!23:24
+qgi1now I don't even know who I am23:24
+dnearyIs it still daytime in Finland?23:24
+qgi1also thank you very much to the listeners23:24
+qgi1lemme see23:24
@X-Fade I'll put the maemo-meeting log up on the website tomorrow.23:24
+andre___hmm. okay :)23:24
+qgi1ok then23:25
-!- ferenc [] has left #maemo-meeting []23:26
-!- mode/#maemo-meeting [-vvvv NetBlade andre___ dneary GAN800] by X-Fade23:27
-!- mode/#maemo-meeting [-vv qgi1 GeneralAntilles] by X-Fade23:27
@X-FadeSilence, at last ;)23:27

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