maemo-meeting-2008-08-12

@X-FadeOk, it seems that it is 19:00 UTC.21:00
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@X-FadeLet's start with the meeting. Quim is on holiday, so today I will try to facilitate this meeting.21:00
@X-FadePlease keep on-topic in this channel. For general chat, use #maemo.21:00
@X-FadeWe are here to review the tasks committed for Sprint3: https://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint321:01
@X-FadeFerenc just told me that he will not be able to join us.21:01
@X-FadeKarsten has also posted that he will not be here.21:02
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andre___(I will take Karsten's part as far as something's unclear, but he has already posted status to the mailing list)21:03
@X-FadeSo, I guess we will start by reviewing the tasks.21:03
@X-Fadeandre___: Care to start? :)21:03
andre___sure21:03
@X-Fade" Put the Bugsquad in place "21:03
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andre___Karsten and me think it's done. We have a triage guide, and some updated/maemo'ized docs21:04
andre___there's always smaller things to discuss (e.g. when to close rotting moreinfo bugs becuse of missing feedback),21:04
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andre___but that's not really big issues.21:04
@X-FadeSure, but that can be enhancements.21:04
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milhousehello21:05
BinkyHi.21:05
@X-Fadeandre___: Any problems you encountered, or see in the future?21:05
* dneary here21:05
andre___exactly. We have https://wiki.maemo.org/Bugsquad and GeneralAntilles and sgadsby help us triaging (thanks, guys!)21:05
andre___none yet21:05
GeneralAntillesAnything else can probably be handled internally in the bugsquad. . . .21:05
dnearyandre___: How about people? I imagine that the bugsquad is not just procedures & documentation21:06
dnearyAh - last thing you said answers that :)21:06
andre___dneary, currently four people, see the wiki page - hope to become more21:06
andre___e.g. by having a bugsquad meeting at the summit, maybe some interested folks show upo21:06
@X-FadeYes, but I already notice the progress you guys are making.21:07
@X-FadeAnd I think others do to.21:07
andre___i hope so...21:07
lardman+121:07
lardmanis it worth advertising for more helper? On the maemo-dev list for example?21:08
GeneralAntillesWe probably need to cheerlead more for stuff like Bugsquad and MAG.21:08
andre___yeah21:08
@X-Fadeandre___: It seems that you only had this _big_ task on this Sprint. Any ideas for future sprints?21:09
dnearyMAG?21:10
Khertan Maemo Action Group21:10
@X-FadeWhat would you want to commit for Sprint4. (Maybe somthing from https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_backlog)21:11
GeneralAntillesdneary, https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemowiki_Action_Group21:11
andre___basically splitting Getting_Nokia_involved_in_bugs.maemo.org into several "real" tasks - for sprint4 i want to work on reorganizing some components in maemo bugzilla products so it fits better to the current organization of nokia developer teams21:11
* andre___ looks for the bug number21:11
andre___https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=356221:12
dnearyAh21:12
dnearyI thought that rang a bell21:12
andre___will make it easier for teams to watch their stuff if the scopes fit better21:12
dnearyGeneralAntilles: I guess you felt the same as me for that - I was a bit disappointed that it didn't take.21:12
@X-Fadeandre___: Can you edit https://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint4#Tasks to add your individual tasks?21:12
andre___ok, thought we'd do that after the meeting. ok, will do :)21:13
@X-Fadeandre___: Sure, but when I go to the next person, you can already work on that ;)21:13
andre___hehe21:13
andre___yess, sirr! :)21:13
@X-FadeLet's see if we can speed it up :)21:14
@X-FadeI guess we can move to Dave now?21:14
* GeneralAntilles hands X-Fade a sharp stick.21:14
dnearyOK21:14
@X-Fadedneary: I see a lot of green!21:14
dnearyPretty happy with that21:15
dnearyHad a good first week in the sprint21:15
dnearyLast week was OK, not great21:15
dnearyAnd this week I'm already getting ready for holidays ;)21:15
dnearyLogo chosen, and changed on the website21:15
dnearyThere's a couple of things that we need before we close out the "who's who" task21:16
@X-FadeAbout the logo, do we have a logo usage page somewhere?21:16
dnearyX-Fade: Not yet21:16
dnearyThat'll come in September21:16
@X-FadeI see confused reactions about the gradient logo etc.21:16
GeneralAntillesJust the old one: http://maemo.org/legal/terms_of_use/trademarks/21:16
dnearyIndeed.21:17
@X-FadeYeah, I guess that needs to be updated and logos added.21:17
Khertanyep ... a maemo ready logo could be great too.21:17
dnearyI was actually one of the people suggesting we keep the gradient for the web21:17
GeneralAntillesPlease no gradient.21:17
dnearyBut there was a rough concensus that it's good to have one logo21:17
@X-FadeBut we need to make the difference clear between Maemo and the maemo.org logo.21:18
dnearyAnd then, as time goes on, different variants will emerge21:18
GeneralAntillesBranding needs to be clear, and superfluous logo variations are bad for that.21:18
dnearyThat's Peter's opinion too, and he knows a little something about branding21:18
dnearyAnyway - to answer your question X-Fade, that will resolve itself after the holidays in September21:19
@X-Fadedneary: So I guess that is Sprint 5 work?21:19
dnearyI'd like to point out the bits n pieces that are loose ends on my tasks21:19
@X-FadeSure, go ahead.21:19
dneary"Who's who" is still waiting for the new profile list to be deployed21:19
dnearyAnd we still need to find a final place (I think) for the maintainers list, which is currently in People21:20
@X-FadeOk, bergie said he would join us later. So we will hear from him about that.21:20
dnearyI've used the Pearls to group "remarkable community projects"21:20
dnearyBut right now, the pearls list isn't navigable21:21
dnearyYou can't go "next page/prev page"21:21
@X-Fadedneary: No that is right, it wasn't meant for that.21:21
@X-Fadedneary: But you can add that to my todo list.21:21
dnearyWell, we need to have a group of projects identified as featured or exceptional projects21:22
@X-FadeAs it seems a useful addition.21:22
dnearyAnd that's what the pearls are21:22
dnearySo it seems like a good match21:22
dnearyOK - I'll create a bug & assign it to you21:22
Khertancan i say something about pearls ?21:22
@X-FadeIt would be good to have a group of people picking these pearls btw.21:23
dnearyFire a head21:23
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KhertanX-Fade: agree21:23
brontidehow about the community council?21:23
dnearyKhertan: What did you want to say?21:24
@X-Fadebrontide: Sure, if there is one. They should be able to pick..21:24
Khertandneary: the same thing than X-Fade : 'It would be good to have a group of people picking these pearls btw'21:24
dnearyWell, that was lucky for you ;)21:25
Khertan:)21:25
dnearyI was assigned the task21:25
dnearyBut I'm happy to delegate/share.21:25
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@X-Fadedneary: It seems you had no bugs for this sprint, so lucky you ;)21:25
dnearyI do agree with the principle that Quim said - "pearls should be picked from the remarkable community projects"21:26
lcuk2re: pearls - shouldnt they come from the ratings on maemo downloads?21:26
dnearyX-Fade: I almost would have liked to have some - bugs are nice for a TODO list21:26
@X-Fadedneary: Well, I guess everybody can file bugs for Dave ;)21:27
dnearylcuk2: There's 2 different listed app rankings - downloads & stars21:27
brontidelcuk2: I don't think they should come from ratings ( although that should be taken into account ) since Pearls should also highlight up and coming projects21:27
dnearywhat brontide said21:27
GeneralAntillesPearls seem more like a "Staff picks" sort of deal21:28
lcuk2ok, so this is special attention to projects which stand out which might not be getting the attention they deserve21:28
GeneralAntillesInteresting stuff that, maybe, not everybody knows about.21:28
Khertan[ like mcalendar :) ]21:28
dnearyGeneralAntilles: I'd prefer to think of it as "projects which deserve a better ranking but aren't well known"21:28
dnearyAnyhoo...21:28
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dnearyFor Sprint 4, I'm going to be around for 3 days21:29
* lardman would like to see some of the less well known Garage projects pushed up from the depths too21:29
GeneralAntilleslardman, they'll need to be in Extras. . . .21:29
@X-Fadedneary: I guess no tasks for Sprint4?21:29
dnearyAs I said earlier, I'd be happy to take on pushing the community council & trying to get the elections started by Friday21:29
@X-Fadedneary: That won't work on such short notice.21:30
lardmanGeneralAntilles: yeah, but there are some pretty cool projects which may need work doing on them, so they won't be there21:30
dnearyWe need a voting system, and candidates21:30
dnearyThen for 2 weeks, we open nominations, and the first 2 weeks of September, elections21:31
lcuk2lardman, i totally agree, but those aren't pearls - they are things people in the workshop could take - like with your barcode - choose a project between us and tinker for a week and see what we can do with it21:31
dnearyI can handle getting the infrastructure in place & opening nominations this week21:31
dnearyI need some task21:31
lardmanfrom my point of view, I've stumbled upon a few things such as these: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/selfone/ https://garage.maemo.org/projects/gspom/21:31
dnearyI've been pottering about & not really making good progress the past few days21:31
@X-Fadedneary: Yes, but I don't see you being able to complete that this week.21:31
GeneralAntillesWell, dneary, getting a push started would be good?21:32
dnearyWell, if I take another task, I'm not going to finish it21:32
GeneralAntillesjust handle it as a backlog task and don't worry about committing.21:32
@X-Fadedneary: So I guess we need to add that to the backlog and you work on it anyway?21:32
@X-Fadeheh21:32
dnearyAnd I think getting a push started is essential if we want it to happen21:32
@X-Fadedneary: Sure, but that is what https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_backlog is for.21:33
@X-FadeAnd I guess: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_Council21:33
dnearyI kind of like having something to do21:34
dnearyRather than no tasks21:34
@X-FadeWell, I think it is a good idea. But please get other community members to help out.21:34
@X-FadeBecause it must be a community thing.21:34
dnearyYes, absolutely21:34
dnearyI heard that Jaffa was interested in organising, but was unsure about conflicts of interest21:35
GeneralAntillesLast talk Jaffa was thinking Quim could push.21:35
GeneralAntillesBut dneary's even better.21:35
@X-FadeBut you can push things internally more easily, so I guess you can help out with those aspects.21:35
GeneralAntillesCommunity people are here, we just need a non-CoI person.21:35
dnearyYup21:35
dnearyI'm not going to be a candidate, in any case21:36
dnearySo let's do that21:36
@X-FadeOk, try to see how far you can come with that in the time you have.21:36
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dnearyI will try to start breaking down the "clean up web content" task to some decent actions I can get done this week too21:37
@X-Fadedneary: Anything else to add?21:37
dnearyNope!21:37
@X-FadeOk :)21:37
@X-Fadedneary: I don't see your holiday on https://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint4 btw.21:38
dnearyI didn't copy them across21:38
@X-FadeI guess, we can go to the next person on the list now?21:39
@X-Fademarcell: ?21:39
marcellI do not have much to say21:39
@X-FadeYou had no tasks, but had some bugs.21:39
marcellI did not have any specific task, I was working on some bugs21:40
@X-FadeWhich were all fixed ;)21:40
marcellkind of, yes. :)21:40
marcellI'd rather keep it this way for sprint 421:40
@X-FadeOk, I see only one High bug for you at the moment.21:40
@X-FadeBut you didn't set that High, so I guess that is up to you.21:41
marcellI will have to work with Eero on the new servers, and I expect to have some bugs coming in too21:41
marcelloh, ok21:41
@X-FadeGeneralAntilles: You should not set bugs to high priority.21:42
GeneralAntillesNumber?21:42
marcelland you beeing on holiday... I have to fix things myself. there will not be anyone to delegate to. :)21:42
@X-FadeGeneralAntilles: #356421:42
GeneralAntillesThat's Medium. . . .21:42
GeneralAntilles3563 on the other hand21:43
GeneralAntillesThought I set it to Medium21:43
GeneralAntillesAnyway.21:43
@X-FadeOk, typo. Sorry.21:43
@X-FadeBugs should always default to low.21:43
@X-FadeWhen an assigned person wants to propose it in the next sprint. They set it to Medium.21:44
marcell3563: well, half of the servers are in one data center and the other half is in a diferent... I am surprised that m.o is even up.21:44
@X-FadeAnd when they commit to it that sprint. They set it to High.21:44
GeneralAntillesAh, I was assuming that things ANYBODY wanted to propose for the next sprint should be set to medium.21:45
GeneralAntillesMy apologies.21:45
GeneralAntillesThat was how I interpreted it from last time.21:45
marcellanyway, I will handle my bugs and keep an eye on the servers in sprint421:45
@X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I don't think that was the idea.21:45
@X-Fademarcell: Yes, you will have enough on your plate this Sprint.21:45
dnearyX-Fade: I understood what GA did21:45
@X-Fadedneary: Well, I don't have a big objection to proposing this way.21:46
@X-Fadedneary: But certainly it should not be set high by the reporter.21:46
GeneralAntilleshttp://maemo.org/maemo-meeting/maemo-meeting-2008-07-22.html#t23:0421:47
marcellI do not mind if someone sets my bugs to medium. at least I will know that people think that I should start with those21:47
lcuk2the reporter might think its high priority21:48
lcuk2even if it changes down afterwards, what might be minor to you may be a showstopper for them21:48
GeneralAntillesMost reporters tend to.21:48
dnearyI don't mind people setting a priority first - what I don't like is people insisting that it stay that way when you change it :)21:49
* lardman should stop filing enhancements and make them critical ;)21:49
@X-FadeAnyway, let's discuss that on the list or at an other time.21:49
GeneralAntillesblocker.21:49
@X-FadeI guess now it is time for my tasks.21:50
@X-FadeAnd I have an orange task in Sprint3.21:50
@X-FadeBetter extras categories and debtags21:51
GeneralAntillesIt'd be nice to get somebody with a lot of experience with categorization and Debian or Ubuntu to chime in. . . .21:51
@X-FadeI started working on a proposal, but ran out of time due to all kinds of failures and problems that needed my attention.21:51
@X-Fadehttps://wiki.maemo.org/Package_Categories21:51
@X-FadeI tried to list some options there.21:52
@X-FadeAnd we need to discuss it in public.21:52
@X-FadeBut I have no time left to work on this in Sprint4 as I will be on holiday.21:52
@X-FadeSo it would be appreciated if somebody could get the discussion started again and added to that wiki page ;)21:53
GeneralAntillesI can prod the old discussion on -developers, anyway.21:54
@X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I already added one. There were more at least.21:54
@X-FadeIt would be a good thing to find a solution for this, but it isn't easy.21:55
@X-FadeAnyway, if no progress is made on that. I will pick it up for Sprint5.21:56
@X-FadeBug #1805 is related to this btw.21:57
@X-FadeThe other High bugs I had were related to version numbers in Downloads comments.21:58
@X-FadeAnd I haven't been able to add that this Sprint. So FAIL on that for me.21:59
@X-FadeI hope to pick that up for Sprint5, when we have those fast servers in place.21:59
@X-FadeIt seems we have a problem when going to the next person.22:00
@X-FadeIt seems that nobody from Nemein is here. So we can't get any progress reports from them.22:00
@X-FadeI can do a bit of a progress report on some items.22:02
@X-FadeThe new webservers are finally delivered and work on setting them up will start on Monday.22:02
GeneralAntillesPraise FSM!22:03
@X-FadeIt would be nice to know when we will see the results, but they should be running before the summit.22:03
marcellat least that is the plan22:04
@X-Fade_should_ :)22:04
@X-FadeThe new profiles and profile list looks to be ready for deployment.22:05
@X-FadeNot sure what we are waiting on.22:05
dnearySilly question: Has any work been done on figuring out if there are any resource issues with Asgard?22:06
dnearyWe're waiting on the deployment.22:06
@X-Fadedneary: All server overload.22:06
dnearyBergie said:22:06
dnearyThis requires the following steps:22:07
dneary* Update the net_nehmer_account package on maemo.org server22:07
dneary* Sync templates and snippets from maemo2midgard SVN to maemo.org server22:07
dnearyIn most cases Niels has handled the tasks related to the live server,22:07
dnearybut if he is busy I can do this too.22:07
dnearySo it looks like you & Henri need to co-ordinate22:07
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@X-FadeOk, so it needs to be installed.22:08
@X-FadeWill do that after the meeting.22:08
dnearyOK22:08
@X-FadeForum feature. Marcell has setup the lurker email accounts and I have installed all components.22:08
@X-FadeIt seems there is a problem with importing the mails. Bergie needs to look at that.22:09
@X-FadeI don't have more updates on other tasks.22:10
@X-FadeQuim seems to have finised all his tasks, so no problems there.22:10
@X-FadeI think that having the activity log worked.22:11
@X-FadeIt provides some insight into what everybody is doing.22:12
andre___yeah, it's definitely good22:12
@X-FadeFor next sprint I really would like to see the Nemein guys adding their progress there too.22:12
GeneralAntillesMuch better green:orange/red ratio this time around. ;)22:12
andre___Totally out of context, I'd like to mention Karsten's status mail at http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2008-August/000632.html here, just for people reading the meeting logs :) The exact bug IDs are listed at https://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint4 . Now back to topic.22:13
@X-Fadeandre___: You you want to tell anything about your newly committed tasks :)22:13
@X-Fades/You/Do/22:14
@X-FadeWas there a plan for the weekly bug reports already?22:14
andre___We discussed that a bit in the beginnings, and I think I mentioned it in a posting to the community mailing list when we started22:15
andre___we definitely need better tools, not only for ourselves but also for some nokia management guys i think22:15
andre___e.g. gnome bugzilla has http://bugzilla.gnome.org/reports/weekly-bug-summary.cgi22:16
andre___but I don't know Karsten's exact plans here22:16
@X-Fadeandre___: Make sure you get in touch with bergie too. They need to implement a brainstorm like site.22:16
andre___ah, ok22:16
@X-FadeSo that is another step in that direction.22:16
dnearyWe should use the colours for the bug lists too22:17
@X-FadePretty exports.22:17
andre___and Karsten's going to work on some enhancements, see the three bugs listed in Sprint422:17
dnearyPlus, daily activity reports are still only coming in from Quim, myself, Karsten, Niels, Andre22:17
dnearyWe need to push Nemein people to do that more22:17
@X-Fadedneary: Scroll up ;)22:18
dnearyAnyone whose name appears in the sprint - even if it's only to say "Yesterday: Nothing Maemo related. Today: Nothing Maemo related"22:18
dnearyX-Fade: You're dead right22:18
@X-Fadedneary: No, that is clutter.22:18
andre___and beside the already mentioned reorganization of some components in maemo bugzilla to better fit the scope of some dev teams, i'm also working on my list with "stuff to discuss with nokia". going to share that when it's in a sane state22:18
@X-Fadedneary: Only real updates.22:18
andre___that's all from my side22:18
@X-Fadedneary: No update -> no work.22:19
dnearyX-Fade: The whole point of scrum is to not stigatise saying "nothing"22:19
@X-Fadedneary: Well, not saying anything means that you didn't even think about it.22:20
dnearyOr that you forgot :)22:20
@X-FadeOk, so I guess that all the status updates are now done?22:21
dnearyOr what you did is trivial stuff22:21
dnearyAnyway - I'm afraid I have to go22:21
@X-FadeWith only andre___ here committing things for Sprint4, this is going to be a slow one.22:21
dnearyI'll be around for a while but will not be live on channel22:22
dnearyX-Fade: It *is* August22:22
@X-FadeDoes anybody have any questions?22:22
@X-Fadedneary: Me included, don't worry ;)22:22
andre___it's just because i need holidays later on it the year so i can't have them now ;-)22:22
@X-FadeOk, well. Thanks for this ultra short meeting ;)22:23
@X-FadeI hope I didn't forget anything/anyone.22:24
dnearyThanks all!22:24
dnearyUltra short? 90 mins22:24
@X-FadeAnd wasn't too disorganised.22:24
@X-Fadedneary: Shortest ever.22:24
GeneralAntillesdneary, you keep popping out early. :P22:24
dnearyGeneralAntilles: Last time it was lunchtime & I was at OSCON :)22:25
GeneralAntillesYeah, yeah. :P22:25
dnearyPlus, I'm not popping out early if it's over, am I? ;)22:25
GeneralAntillesThanks for facilitating with Quim gone, X-Fade. :)22:26
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andre___yeah, thanks for leading this. and now back to this nice bottle of wine here... :-)22:26
@X-FadeInstalling new profiles now.22:28
@X-Fadedneary: Done.22:33
dnearyYay!22:33

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