Validity criteria for bugtrackers and bugtrackers links

Hi,

since some developers aren't taking seriously the QA rules and there's a lot
of room for different interpretations in some cases, like the validity of
the bugtracker fields, the Testing Squad decided to write some additional
rules to clarify dubious situations: http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugtracker

These rules aren't final and need to be approved by the community as usual,
this is just a call for further discussion.

Discussion at TMO: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=560035

Best regards,

--
Valério Valério
Maemo Community Council Chair

http://www.valeriovalerio.org

Am Montag, den 08.03.2010, 15:29 +0000 schrieb Valerio Valerio:
> http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugtracker

That URL looks quite generic to me. People clicking that URL might
expect to end up at maemo.org's Bugzilla instead.

andre
--
Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster)

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Andre Klapper <aklapper@openismus.com>wrote:

> Am Montag, den 08.03.2010, 15:29 +0000 schrieb Valerio Valerio:
> > http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugtracker
>
> That URL looks quite generic to me. People clicking that URL might
> expect to end up at maemo.org's Bugzilla instead.
>

Right, what about http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing/Bugtracker ?

Best,

--
Valério Valério

http://www.valeriovalerio.org


>
> andre
> --
> Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster)
>
>

Am Montag, den 08.03.2010, 15:50 +0000 schrieb Valerio Valerio:
> On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Andre Klapper wrote:
> > http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugtracker
>
>
> That URL looks quite generic to me. People clicking that URL
> might
> expect to end up at maemo.org's Bugzilla instead.
>
> Right, what about http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing/Bugtracker ?

Sounds good.

andre

--
Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster)

On Monday 08 March 2010 15:29:51 Valerio Valerio wrote:
> since some developers aren't taking seriously the QA rules and there's a
> lot of room for different interpretations in some cases, like the validity
> of the bugtracker fields, the Testing Squad decided to write some
> additional rules to clarify dubious situations:
> http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugtracker

I disagree with this rule:

These bugtrackers link are considered NOT valid:

* General links that do not lead to a dedicated page (e.g.
http://talk.maemo.org or https://bugs.maemo.org)

There should not be restrictions on the type or location of a bugtracker to
use. Any URL at which you can provide the bug report information should be
acceptable. For example, in the GPE apps I point to the upstream bugtracker.
There is no need to point to a page because this is all about GPE. The user
will probably want to search, they may know which GPE component they should
report it against (e.g. one of the applets or libraries, not necessarily the
component they actually installed) and, if not, they can choose the product
itself when they enter the bug report and I will reassign it as necessary.

Other upstreams may have completely different bugtrackers which work
differently.

I really don't even see any problem with just pointing to t.m.o or b.m.o.

By all means give advice that it MAY be helpful to provide a bugtracker link
with a product name, and is particularly recommended when using b.m.o. And/or
particularly for applications with large numbers of users. But it is not a
showstopper. Leave it up to the developer.

It is marginal as to whether a bugtracker should be required at all. I think
it should, because it is easy and extremely helpful to the user, but only if
it is left up to the developer what form it takes. If a developer wants to
use something different from normal then that is fine. All we should require
is that they have had to explicitly do something.

Graham

Hi,

On Mon, Mar 8, 2010 at 9:21 PM, Graham Cobb
<g+770@cobb.uk.net<g%2B770@cobb.uk.net>
> wrote:

> On Monday 08 March 2010 15:29:51 Valerio Valerio wrote:
> > since some developers aren't taking seriously the QA rules and there's a
> > lot of room for different interpretations in some cases, like the
> validity
> > of the bugtracker fields, the Testing Squad decided to write some
> > additional rules to clarify dubious situations:
> > http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugtracker
>
> I disagree with this rule:
>
> These bugtrackers link are considered NOT valid:
>
> * General links that do not lead to a dedicated page (e.g.
> http://talk.maemo.org or https://bugs.maemo.org)
>
> There should not be restrictions on the type or location of a bugtracker to
> use. Any URL at which you can provide the bug report information should be
> acceptable. For example, in the GPE apps I point to the upstream
> bugtracker.
> There is no need to point to a page because this is all about GPE. The
> user
> will probably want to search, they may know which GPE component they should
> report it against (e.g. one of the applets or libraries, not necessarily
> the
> component they actually installed) and, if not, they can choose the product
> itself when they enter the bug report and I will reassign it as necessary.
>
> Other upstreams may have completely different bugtrackers which work
> differently.
>
> I really don't even see any problem with just pointing to t.m.o or b.m.o.
>

What about www.google.com ? seems the same for me :).

That could work if that project has a product at bugzilla or a specific
thread at TMO(generaly they don't have), but don't you think it will be hard
to find ?
That will only leads to general confusion among the newcomers and a lot of
bugs filled in the wrong products at bugzilla.


Best regards,

--
Valério Valério

http://www.valeriovalerio.org



>
> By all means give advice that it MAY be helpful to provide a bugtracker
> link
> with a product name, and is particularly recommended when using b.m.o.
> And/or
> particularly for applications with large numbers of users. But it is not a
> showstopper. Leave it up to the developer.
>
> It is marginal as to whether a bugtracker should be required at all. I
> think
> it should, because it is easy and extremely helpful to the user, but only
> if
> it is left up to the developer what form it takes. If a developer wants to
> use something different from normal then that is fine. All we should
> require
> is that they have had to explicitly do something.
>
> Graham
>

On Monday 08 March 2010 21:30:50 Valerio Valerio wrote:
> What about www.google.com ? seems the same for me :).

It isn't the same because there is no way to enter a bug report. However, I
would allow it. If someone makes that their bugtracker then they are saying
they are not interested in bugs. Nothing we can do can make them interested
in bugs so at least if they do that they are being more honest than someone
who opens a maemo bugzilla product and then completely ignores it.

The rule should be that the developer has thought about it and put something
in. There should be recommendations for best practice. That is all we need.

> That could work if that project has a product at bugzilla or a specific
> thread at TMO(generaly they don't have), but don't you think it will be
> hard to find ?

In bugzilla? No. In t.m.o? People would just create new threads, which
might be exactly what the developer prefers.

> That will only leads to general confusion among the newcomers and a lot of
> bugs filled in the wrong products at bugzilla.

General confusion -- probably. Wrong products -- unlikely. Again, what a
developer who chooses to just put bugs.maemo.org is saying is that he has
chosen to ignore the recommendation and is probably not very interested in
bugs. Nothing we do can make him interested in the bugs so if he doesn't
want to make it easy for people to report them at least it saves them wasting
their time.

Like other quality issues, the issue is likely to be commented on by a
reviewer and reflected in any ratings. That is the real pressure on the
developer, not the QA process.

Graham

I would like to add the following to "Actually, these bugtrackers links are considered valid: "
- A link to a product dedicated page in the Maemo Wiki (e.g. http://wiki.maemo.org/Sleeper#Bugs)

This serves a similar function as a centralized place where user can note bugs and helps the complexitiy in check. In addition, it is "near" the other information about the app (in fact, I've started to link my apps to such pages, see my fresh blog post about this).

Thanks and best regards
-Tom


> Hi,
>
> since some developers aren't taking seriously the QA rules and there's a lot of room for different interpretations in some cases, like the validity of the bugtracker fields, the Testing Squad decided to write some additional rules to clarify dubious situations: http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugtracker
>
> These rules aren't final and need to be approved by the community as usual, this is just a call for further discussion.
>
> Discussion at TMO: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=560035
>
> Best regards,

Hi,

Valerio Valerio wrote:
> Right, what about http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing/Bugtracker ?

I agree with Andre about the possible confusion - I've renamed the page
to "Tracking bugs in Extras" - which makes it clear that it's about the
process (the tracking) rather than the software (the bugtracker), and
that it applies to extras rather than (specifically) to Maemo bugzilla.

http://wiki.maemo.org/Tracking_bugs_in_Extras

How does that suit?

Cheers,
Dave.

--
maemo.org docsmaster
Email: dneary@maemo.org
Jabber: bolsh@jabber.org

Am Montag, den 08.03.2010, 22:19 +0000 schrieb Graham Cobb:
> On Monday 08 March 2010 21:30:50 Valerio Valerio wrote:
> > What about www.google.com ? seems the same for me :).
>
> It isn't the same because there is no way to enter a bug report. However, I
> would allow it. If someone makes that their bugtracker then they are saying
> they are not interested in bugs.

Now does an average user understand the maintainer's intention, or will
s/he instead file a report somewhere in bugs.maemo.org that somebody has
to manually close as invalid and answer "Please contact the author of
this application instead, but I have no idea where and if they have a
bugtracker or feedback channel or email address or $whatever so feel
free to waste an hour trying to find out before giving up"?

Must be quite frustrating for users that just wanted to help a developer
improving his/her application.

andre
--
Andre Klapper (maemo.org bugmaster)