| dneary | Hi all | 14:59 |
|---|---|---|
| dneary | hi bergie | 14:59 |
| X-Fade | Hi | 14:59 |
| bergie | hi | 15:00 |
| bergie | running between meetings ;-) | 15:00 |
| bergie | ...literally | 15:00 |
| -!- tekojo [n=tekojo@dasasob.nokia.com] has joined #maemo-meeting | 15:00 | |
| tekojo | Hi! | 15:00 |
| andre__ | hej hej | 15:00 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Will you chair this meeting? | 15:01 |
| dneary | Everybody in? | 15:02 |
| X-Fade | I guess GeneralAntilles isn't here. | 15:04 |
| X-Fade | dneary: Let's start with your tasks? | 15:05 |
| X-Fade | I see one done and one waiting on glaubert. | 15:05 |
| dneary | Yes, pretty much | 15:06 |
| dneary | I emailed Glaubert before the meeting yesterday to get an update on the icon design, but haven't heard back from him yet. Will try to chase him down again today | 15:07 |
| X-Fade | Ok, let's carry over the task to February. I think we will be able to close it in the next sprint? | 15:07 |
| dneary | Short version: we've made good content on the site this month, most of the design work is done, we've started on the construction work, and the content is more or less stable | 15:08 |
| dneary | The layout for Support will get done when Glaubert's finished the icons | 15:08 |
| X-Fade | More info here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Improving_maemo.org/Graphics | 15:09 |
| dneary | Indeed | 15:09 |
| dneary | I would like to create a new task for February, related to updating the election system for preferential voting | 15:09 |
| X-Fade | Let's add them after reviewing this Sprint. | 15:10 |
| dneary | I should start working on the changes needed now, so that we don't end up against a wayy | 15:10 |
| dneary | wall later on | 15:10 |
| dneary | OK | 15:10 |
| X-Fade | Hirvinen: Application Karma task? | 15:10 |
| X-Fade | Hirvinen: I saw some work on it? | 15:10 |
| dneary | In my bugs, I still have "Developer portal needs revision" | 15:10 |
| dneary | I added a comment that I'm going to leave it open until the new site goes live | 15:11 |
| X-Fade | dneary: Ah, yes. Task for Feb Sprint? | 15:11 |
| dneary | But the content proposal is more or less final now | 15:11 |
| dneary | We have a content proposal, a design, and it's on top of your & Henri's list for pages to do in Midgard in the new design... I think we have it covered | 15:12 |
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| X-Fade | ok | 15:12 |
| X-Fade | bergie: Are you aware of Hirvinen's status? | 15:12 |
| * bergie just kicked Hirvinen, he is here | 15:13 | |
| Hirvinen | Sorry, got distracted by something else. | 15:13 |
| Hirvinen | I've looked at the issue and implementing should be relatively straightforward, but some things need deciding first: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2179#13 | 15:13 |
| X-Fade | Hirvinen: Ok, we'll have to discuss that on the list. | 15:15 |
| X-Fade | But given that we come to a conclusion, this can be done before the end of next Sprint? | 15:15 |
| Hirvinen | Yes. | 15:15 |
| X-Fade | ok.. | 15:16 |
| Hirvinen | As long as it doesn't take several weeks to reach that conclusion, of course;) | 15:16 |
| X-Fade | tekojo: The Git task. | 15:16 |
| X-Fade | tekojo: Still going on. I saw that we now have a gitweb setup too. | 15:17 |
| tekojo | Was that on me? | 15:17 |
| X-Fade | tekojo: Unless it is the other Tero ;) | 15:17 |
| tekojo | Ferenc is really doing it :-) | 15:17 |
| X-Fade | Ok, I'll change it to Ferenc for the next sprint then. | 15:18 |
| X-Fade | Quim is not here and didn't manage to close any of his tasks. Tries to work on them for the next. | 15:18 |
| tekojo | I admit to being passive in January | 15:18 |
| X-Fade | Then I guess it is my turn. | 15:19 |
| X-Fade | https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Reducing_number_of_external_repositories is really standing. I propose moving it to the backlog. | 15:19 |
| X-Fade | As this can be done by anybody. | 15:20 |
| X-Fade | https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Implement_new_maemo.org_layout_and_style is moving along. | 15:20 |
| X-Fade | I'm currently waitingon bergie to fix an issue so I can show the changes on newstyle.maemo.org without breaking maemo.org. | 15:21 |
| X-Fade | But that fix should be there soon. | 15:21 |
| bergie | yes, sadly last week European Commission hijacked me ;-) So, soon | 15:21 |
| bergie | should we try to have a deadline for the new layout? | 15:22 |
| X-Fade | " Plan to redesign Downloads and add functionality ". I had some feedback and will blog about this. Plus I will add some ideas from this as tasks for the next sprint. | 15:22 |
| X-Fade | bergie: I think we can set one if we have all designs and graphics determined. | 15:23 |
| X-Fade | But I'll let dneary lead on that one ;) | 15:23 |
| bergie | agreed :-) | 15:24 |
| Jaffa | Who is responsible for implementing the wiki, bugzilla and non-midgard styles? | 15:24 |
| X-Fade | andre__: You didn't have any tasks committed this month, do you wish to say anything about this month? | 15:24 |
| Jaffa | (talk had already been mentioned on the mailing list) | 15:24 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Probably me.. | 15:25 |
| bergie | I can probably help with some of that | 15:25 |
| X-Fade | Unless somebody else wants to take it on? | 15:25 |
| dneary | X-Fade: For redesigning downloads? | 15:25 |
| X-Fade | dneary: ? | 15:25 |
| * Jaffa just wants to ensure that lots of effort is spent making the midgard page work when, TBH, they're the smaller number of pages these days | 15:25 | |
| dneary | I really really think that this shouldn't be on any sprint until we've got the new website design online | 15:25 |
| andre__ | X-Fade: yes :) | 15:26 |
| dneary | I see you giving me work I don't think we should be doing yet ;) | 15:26 |
| andre__ | Besides normal bug business I'm mostly working on bug 3846 (efforts required to port maemo.org bugzilla to a recent version). want to have that done by end of Q2 (because Bugzilla 3.4 planned for May 15th). Now is a good time to prepare this, because not that many incoming bug reports, but that will head up later when beta comes out | 15:26 |
| andre__ | i'm currently dumping all data to http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Andre/bug3846 in case of harddisk failures, if someone wants to track this (though I don't expect this) :-P | 15:27 |
| dneary | bergie: For a deadline for rolling out the new design, I'm all ears... | 15:27 |
| dneary | I still don't have a clear idea what you guys need to get dome to release | 15:27 |
| dneary | Which, to be honest, is a bit of a problem for me | 15:27 |
| X-Fade | dneary: Please, if someone is doing his status report.. wait a bit ;) | 15:28 |
| bergie | well, the pipeline with any app/site area is design -> XHTML/CSS -> templates -> deployment | 15:28 |
| dneary | (sorry, X-Chat heard my name...) | 15:28 |
| andre__ | (oh well, i'm done :-) ) | 15:28 |
| X-Fade | andre__: Ok, so no issues you need help for? | 15:29 |
| andre__ | not *yet* | 15:29 |
| andre__ | i will need help for those code changes i don't get, probably by ferenc :-) | 15:29 |
| X-Fade | Ok. | 15:29 |
| X-Fade | Now for dneary's problem. | 15:30 |
| X-Fade | dneary: How would you like us to report status, so you can keep informed about progress? | 15:30 |
| dneary | X-Fade: I'd like to have your & Bergie's TODO list for the new site | 15:31 |
| dneary | Basically | 15:32 |
| X-Fade | Ok, will add that to the status page.. | 15:32 |
| dneary | If you could break things down to a checklist of items where each item is taking max. 1 day, I'm happy | 15:32 |
| X-Fade | I started here, I guess I can add the TODO items there too: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Implement_new_maemo.org_layout_and_style | 15:33 |
| dneary | If there's an item on there like "Do Support page", I have no idea how you break that down - is there a Midgard module to create, CSS to write, bugs to fix, etc | 15:33 |
| bergie | would make sense, yes | 15:33 |
| bergie | we can probably do that with X-Fade after the meeting | 15:33 |
| dneary | Great! Thanks guys | 15:33 |
| X-Fade | dneary: But please push for the graphical elements and designs. That is really holding up at the moment. | 15:33 |
| bergie | I still have 1.5h before I need to go hit people with swords ;-) | 15:33 |
| dneary | Right now, for icons, I could throw together placeholder if you want | 15:34 |
| bergie | dneary: but mostly it is CSS + Midgard template... we don't really need modules or such | 15:34 |
| X-Fade | Yes, it is basically editing existing templates which are all in svn already. Rearrage items, create HTML and CSS changes. | 15:35 |
| dneary | X-Fade: But if there are any secific designs holding you up, and I haven't put them on top of Glaubert's priority list, then please shout. | 15:35 |
| Jaffa | "it" | 15:35 |
| Jaffa | What's the "it" which you (bergie) and you (X-Fade) are referring to? | 15:35 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: The midgard styling part of the whole redesign effort. | 15:35 |
| Jaffa | Right; and there are designs for planet and static pages; but newstyle.maemo.org is a long way from them. | 15:36 |
| bergie | Jaffa: new layout into the various Midgard sections / apps we have | 15:36 |
| Jaffa | You need to be clearer to dneary as to exactly what is holding you up, as glaubert's delivered the design for a lot of bits. | 15:36 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: In realily we are a few steps further, but due to a bug I can't show it on newstyle. | 15:36 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Basically I need all icons and graphical elements cut into pixmaps and in svn ;) | 15:37 |
| dneary | Jaffa: The 'it' is their work - replying to my statement that I don't know exactly what they need to do to get the site up & running | 15:38 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: and who are you expecting to do the svn add? :-) | 15:38 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: I can do that, but I need the files first ;) | 15:39 |
| X-Fade | And we haven't decided on the final versions of those, so.. | 15:39 |
| dneary | Jaffa: I or Glaubert will put files in the wiki, I might even get peppy & go straight to svn | 15:40 |
| dneary | So - if we can move on to the new stuff that needs to be added to the February sprint? | 15:41 |
| dneary | (some of this stuff might not have Task pages associated yet) | 15:41 |
| X-Fade | Let's keep all other website discussions from the redesign meetings or mailing lists.. | 15:41 |
| dneary | ok | 15:42 |
| X-Fade | dneary: You wanted to add the referendum as task? | 15:42 |
| dneary | Although having a clear idea of how close we are to a release is important | 15:42 |
| dneary | X-Fade: Yes | 15:42 |
| dneary | We need to run a referendum to change the rules for elections | 15:42 |
| dneary | I'd like to launch it/them this week | 15:42 |
| dneary | We need one to lower karma limits to 10 | 15:43 |
| Jaffa | The council have been discussing exact wording for our suggested language | 15:43 |
| dneary | And one to explicitly say we're doing elections by preferential vote | 15:43 |
| Jaffa | Taking into account the "bah, just suggest something council" emails and the increasingly useless -community discussion. | 15:43 |
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| X-Fade | dneary: I added the table, can you add your task to https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Sprints/February_09#Tasks | 15:44 |
| dneary | Jaffa: OK - can we have a chat about that today & try to come up with a thread-ending proposal? | 15:44 |
| Jaffa | dneary: yup; I'll email you after | 15:44 |
| * Jaffa has some AOB tasks related to elections | 15:45 | |
| dneary | I also want to add a separate task to launching the referendum, to do with modifying the election system | 15:45 |
| dneary | We need to start that before running the referendum | 15:45 |
| Jaffa | dneary: scope of the task depending on the outcome of the referendum | 15:45 |
| dneary | There's some hacking to be done there, as well as modifying the database, updating the electorate, etc. | 15:45 |
| dneary | Jaffa: Regardless, there will be some work to be done that I can start & test now | 15:46 |
| dneary | Whether we're preferential voting or RRV, there need to be database changes, and they'll be similar in both scenarios | 15:46 |
| X-Fade | Ok. Any other tasks you want to propose? | 15:46 |
| dneary | X-Fade: Gimmie a sec to look in the backlog... I can shout later | 15:47 |
| dneary | But with the website & the elections, I'm probably good for the month | 15:47 |
| X-Fade | dneary: Just add them to the table if you need more ;) | 15:47 |
| X-Fade | andre__: Do you want to add a task? | 15:48 |
| dneary | I should be fine. | 15:48 |
| andre__ | no, i think 3846 will give me enough work for next weeks :-/ | 15:48 |
| X-Fade | andre__: It is not in the tasks list yet, can you add to the tasks? | 15:49 |
| andre__ | ah, sure, will do | 15:49 |
| X-Fade | bergie: Want to add any tasks? | 15:49 |
| bergie | nope, I think the redesign and some performance stuff should keep us busy | 15:50 |
| X-Fade | Ok. | 15:50 |
| X-Fade | tekojo: Anything you want to have added? | 15:51 |
| tekojo | Not that I can think of right now | 15:51 |
| * Jaffa has two: #3692 and #3911 are both karma related bugs. If there's an upcoming election, these - and any other karma bugs - should be resolved as a matter of urgency | 15:51 | |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Yes, let's set them to high priority. | 15:51 |
| Jaffa | Anyone aware of any others apart from those two? | 15:52 |
| * Jaffa will bump the priority after this. | 15:52 | |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: All other karma items seem to work fine. | 15:52 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: It is just that the mail import has issues and needs to be fixed and mail needs to be re-imported. | 15:53 |
| Jaffa | There's also been a suggestion about the mailing list karma bonuses, and the IRC karma bonuses. | 15:53 |
| Jaffa | I don't know if there are issues for those | 15:53 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Yeah, mailinglist karma is hell to program ;) | 15:53 |
| crashanddie | X-Fade: how so? | 15:54 |
| X-Fade | And personally I don't see a lot of added value, but let's discuss that on the list :) | 15:54 |
| dneary | Ah - there was also one additional karma point: marka for mailing list membership | 15:54 |
| dneary | But maybe that's what you're talking about :) | 15:55 |
| Jaffa | dneary: yeah | 15:55 |
| X-Fade | dneary: Yes, but any mail you send to the lists will give you the same thing. It also implies you are subscribed. | 15:55 |
| X-Fade | So adding karma for being a passive member, I don't know :) | 15:56 |
| dneary | X-Fade: The point, I guess, was to have a certain level of karma just for being on the list, even if you never post | 15:56 |
| Jaffa | Indeed, for all the people who are aware of the issues, but never post. | 15:56 |
| Jaffa | It's a good idea, IMHO | 15:56 |
| Jaffa | But let's discuss it on the list | 15:56 |
| bergie | dneary: but there are many other ways to "subscribe" to the list beside regular subscription | 15:56 |
| X-Fade | So see it as an incentive. | 15:56 |
| dneary | Yes, and that also came up on the mailing list | 15:57 |
| Jaffa | bergie: So? If you take that argument, the whole karma system is flawed. The point is to catch the stuff we can, not try and model the universe | 15:57 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: I'm all for crediting _active_ contributions. | 15:57 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: raise it on the list | 15:58 |
| Jaffa | Let's move on. | 15:58 |
| X-Fade | Sending a mail isn't that big of an effort. Or commenting to a bug or editing a wiki page ;) | 15:58 |
| dneary | One person mentioned to me that they found the whole discussion "surreal" - every group has entry requirements, and he found it bizarre that we were wasting so much energy arguing that there shouldn't be any for Maemo | 15:58 |
| X-Fade | So, anybody else want to add tasks? | 15:58 |
| Jaffa | Suffice to say, there may be other karma things on the roadmap for maybe the next sprint | 15:58 |
| dneary | Anyway - it's obviously something that a part of the community finds important, so we should try & improve the situation. | 15:58 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Well, add them now or it will be for the next meeting. | 15:59 |
| dneary | Next meeting | 15:59 |
| X-Fade | Doesn't mean we can't work on it between meetings.. | 15:59 |
| dneary | I'll take the lead on addressing election issues, but I'll need your help or Bergie's to put in place extra karma measurements. | 15:59 |
| Hirvinen | The problem that was pointed out on the list is that if karma is used to decide whether one has a vote, giving out karma for only some methods of following the discussion is effectively a punishment against those who prefer other ways... | 16:00 |
| X-Fade | I think I don't want to add more tasks this month as the website will take enough of my time. | 16:00 |
| dneary | Ah - one other task | 16:01 |
| bergie | dneary: I'll try to get you the data you need | 16:01 |
| X-Fade | Any bugs that need to changed to High priority? | 16:01 |
| dneary | X-Fade: Can I bug you for the various Karma changes we've made to update the wiki.maemo.org/Karma page, please? | 16:01 |
| dneary | Hirvinen: We live in a cruel, cruel world. | 16:02 |
| X-Fade | Sure, everything should be in svn. | 16:02 |
| dneary | Thanks :) English would be quicker than python & php, but I'll ask if I need any insight | 16:04 |
| X-Fade | Yes, will do ;) | 16:05 |
| X-Fade | I guess that if nobody has to add anything, we are done? | 16:06 |
| tekojo | Ok, bye! | 16:08 |
| dneary | bye all | 16:08 |
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