maemo-meeting-2009-02-04

dnearyHi all14:59
dnearyhi bergie14:59
X-FadeHi14:59
bergiehi15:00
bergierunning between meetings ;-)15:00
bergie...literally15:00
-!- tekojo [n=tekojo@dasasob.nokia.com] has joined #maemo-meeting15:00
tekojoHi!15:00
andre__hej hej15:00
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Will you chair this meeting?15:01
dnearyEverybody in?15:02
X-FadeI guess GeneralAntilles isn't here.15:04
X-Fadedneary: Let's start with your tasks?15:05
X-FadeI see one done and one waiting on glaubert.15:05
dnearyYes, pretty much15:06
dnearyI emailed Glaubert before the meeting yesterday to get an update on the icon design, but haven't heard back from him yet. Will try to chase him down again today15:07
X-FadeOk, let's carry over the task to February. I think we will be able to close it in the next sprint?15:07
dnearyShort version: we've made good content on the site this month, most of the design work is done, we've started on the construction work, and the content is more or less stable15:08
dnearyThe layout for Support will get done when Glaubert's finished the icons15:08
X-FadeMore info here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Improving_maemo.org/Graphics15:09
dnearyIndeed15:09
dnearyI would like to create a new task for February, related to updating the election system for preferential voting15:09
X-FadeLet's add them after reviewing this Sprint.15:10
dnearyI should start working on the changes needed now, so that we don't end up against a wayy15:10
dnearywall later on15:10
dnearyOK15:10
X-FadeHirvinen: Application Karma task?15:10
X-FadeHirvinen: I saw some work on it?15:10
dnearyIn my bugs, I still have "Developer portal needs revision"15:10
dnearyI added a comment that I'm going to leave it open until the new site goes live15:11
X-Fadedneary: Ah, yes. Task for Feb Sprint?15:11
dnearyBut the content proposal is more or less final now15:11
dnearyWe have a content proposal, a design, and it's on top of your & Henri's list for pages to do in Midgard in the new design... I think we have it covered15:12
-!- SlOrbA [n=user@YKMDCCCLV.gprs.saunalahti.fi] has joined #maemo-meeting15:12
X-Fadeok15:12
X-Fadebergie: Are you aware of Hirvinen's status?15:12
* bergie just kicked Hirvinen, he is here15:13
HirvinenSorry, got distracted by something else.15:13
HirvinenI've looked at the issue and implementing should be relatively straightforward, but some things need deciding first: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2179#1315:13
X-FadeHirvinen: Ok, we'll have to discuss that on the list.15:15
X-FadeBut given that we come to a conclusion, this can be done before the end of next Sprint?15:15
HirvinenYes.15:15
X-Fadeok..15:16
HirvinenAs long as it doesn't take several weeks to reach that conclusion, of course;)15:16
X-Fadetekojo: The Git task.15:16
X-Fadetekojo: Still going on. I saw that we now have a gitweb setup too.15:17
tekojoWas that on me?15:17
X-Fadetekojo: Unless it is the other Tero ;)15:17
tekojoFerenc is really doing it :-)15:17
X-FadeOk, I'll change it to Ferenc for the next sprint then.15:18
X-FadeQuim is not here and didn't manage to close any of his tasks. Tries to work on them for the next.15:18
tekojoI admit to being passive in January15:18
X-FadeThen I guess it is my turn.15:19
X-Fadehttps://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Reducing_number_of_external_repositories is really standing. I propose moving it to the backlog.15:19
X-FadeAs this can be done by anybody.15:20
X-Fadehttps://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Implement_new_maemo.org_layout_and_style is moving along.15:20
X-FadeI'm currently waitingon bergie to fix an issue so I can show the changes on newstyle.maemo.org without breaking maemo.org.15:21
X-FadeBut that fix should be there soon.15:21
bergieyes, sadly last week European Commission hijacked me ;-) So, soon15:21
bergieshould we try to have a deadline for the new layout?15:22
X-Fade" Plan to redesign Downloads and add functionality ". I had some feedback and will blog about this. Plus I will add some ideas from this as tasks for the next sprint.15:22
X-Fadebergie: I think we can set one if we have all designs and graphics determined.15:23
X-FadeBut I'll let dneary lead on that one ;)15:23
bergieagreed :-)15:24
JaffaWho is responsible for implementing the wiki, bugzilla and non-midgard styles?15:24
X-Fadeandre__: You didn't have any tasks committed this month, do you wish to say anything about this month?15:24
Jaffa(talk had already been mentioned on the mailing list)15:24
X-FadeJaffa: Probably me..15:25
bergieI can probably help with some of that15:25
X-FadeUnless somebody else wants to take it on?15:25
dnearyX-Fade: For redesigning downloads?15:25
X-Fadedneary: ?15:25
* Jaffa just wants to ensure that lots of effort is spent making the midgard page work when, TBH, they're the smaller number of pages these days15:25
dnearyI really really think that this shouldn't be on any sprint until we've got the new website design online15:25
andre__X-Fade: yes :)15:26
dnearyI see you giving me work I don't think we should be doing yet ;)15:26
andre__Besides normal bug business I'm mostly working on bug 3846 (efforts required to port maemo.org bugzilla to a recent version). want to have that done by end of Q2 (because Bugzilla 3.4 planned for May 15th). Now is a good time to prepare this, because not that many incoming bug reports, but that will head up later when beta comes out15:26
andre__i'm currently dumping all data to http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Andre/bug3846 in case of harddisk failures, if someone wants to track this (though I don't expect this) :-P15:27
dnearybergie: For a deadline for rolling out the new design, I'm all ears...15:27
dnearyI still don't have a clear idea what you guys need to get dome to release15:27
dnearyWhich, to be honest, is a bit of a problem for me15:27
X-Fadedneary: Please, if someone is doing his status report.. wait a bit ;)15:28
bergiewell, the pipeline with any app/site area is design -> XHTML/CSS -> templates -> deployment15:28
dneary(sorry, X-Chat heard my name...)15:28
andre__(oh well, i'm done :-) )15:28
X-Fadeandre__: Ok, so no issues you need help for?15:29
andre__not *yet*15:29
andre__i will need help for those code changes i don't get, probably by ferenc :-)15:29
X-FadeOk.15:29
X-FadeNow for dneary's problem.15:30
X-Fadedneary: How would you like us to report status, so you can keep informed about progress?15:30
dnearyX-Fade: I'd like to have your & Bergie's TODO list for the new site15:31
dnearyBasically15:32
X-FadeOk, will add that to the status page..15:32
dnearyIf you could break things down to a checklist of items where each item is taking max. 1 day, I'm happy15:32
X-FadeI started here, I guess I can add the TODO items there too: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Implement_new_maemo.org_layout_and_style15:33
dnearyIf there's an item on there like "Do Support page", I have no idea how you break that down - is there a Midgard module to create, CSS to write, bugs to fix, etc15:33
bergiewould make sense, yes15:33
bergiewe can probably do that with X-Fade after the meeting15:33
dnearyGreat! Thanks guys15:33
X-Fadedneary: But please push for the graphical elements and designs. That is really holding up at the moment.15:33
bergieI still have 1.5h before I need to go hit people with swords ;-)15:33
dnearyRight now, for icons, I could throw together placeholder if you want15:34
bergiedneary: but mostly it is CSS + Midgard template... we don't really need modules or such15:34
X-FadeYes, it is basically editing existing templates which are all in svn already. Rearrage items, create HTML and CSS changes.15:35
dnearyX-Fade: But if there are any secific designs holding you up, and I haven't put them on top of Glaubert's priority list, then please shout.15:35
Jaffa"it"15:35
JaffaWhat's the "it" which you (bergie) and you (X-Fade) are referring to?15:35
X-FadeJaffa: The midgard styling part of the whole redesign effort.15:35
JaffaRight; and there are designs for planet and static pages; but newstyle.maemo.org is a long way from them.15:36
bergieJaffa: new layout into the various Midgard sections / apps we have15:36
JaffaYou need to be clearer to dneary as to exactly what is holding you up, as glaubert's delivered the design for a lot of bits.15:36
X-FadeJaffa: In realily we are a few steps further, but due to a bug I can't show it on newstyle.15:36
X-FadeJaffa: Basically I need all icons and graphical elements cut into pixmaps and in svn ;)15:37
dnearyJaffa: The 'it' is their work - replying to my statement that I don't know exactly what they need to do to get the site up & running15:38
JaffaX-Fade: and who are you expecting to do the svn add? :-)15:38
X-FadeJaffa: I can do that, but I need the files first ;)15:39
X-FadeAnd we haven't decided on the final versions of those, so..15:39
dnearyJaffa: I or Glaubert will put files in the wiki, I might even get peppy & go straight to svn15:40
dnearySo - if we can move on to the new stuff that needs to be added to the February sprint?15:41
dneary(some of this stuff might not have Task pages associated yet)15:41
X-FadeLet's keep all other website discussions from the redesign meetings or mailing lists..15:41
dnearyok15:42
X-Fadedneary: You wanted to add the referendum as task?15:42
dnearyAlthough having a clear idea of how close we are to a release is important15:42
dnearyX-Fade: Yes15:42
dnearyWe need to run a referendum to change the rules for elections15:42
dnearyI'd like to launch it/them this week15:42
dnearyWe need one to lower karma limits to 1015:43
JaffaThe council have been discussing exact wording for our suggested language15:43
dnearyAnd one to explicitly say we're doing elections by preferential vote15:43
JaffaTaking into account the "bah, just suggest something council" emails and the increasingly useless -community discussion.15:43
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X-Fadedneary: I added the table, can you add your task to https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Sprints/February_09#Tasks15:44
dnearyJaffa: OK - can we have a chat about that today & try to come up with a thread-ending proposal?15:44
Jaffadneary: yup; I'll email you after15:44
* Jaffa has some AOB tasks related to elections15:45
dnearyI also want to add a separate task to launching the referendum, to do with modifying the election system15:45
dnearyWe need to start that before running the referendum15:45
Jaffadneary: scope of the task depending on the outcome of the referendum15:45
dnearyThere's some hacking to be done there, as well as modifying the database, updating the electorate, etc.15:45
dnearyJaffa: Regardless, there will be some work to be done that I can start & test now15:46
dnearyWhether we're preferential voting or RRV, there need to be database changes, and they'll be similar in both scenarios15:46
X-FadeOk. Any other tasks you want to propose?15:46
dnearyX-Fade: Gimmie a sec to look in the backlog... I can shout later15:47
dnearyBut with the website & the elections, I'm probably good for the month15:47
X-Fadedneary: Just add them to the table if you need more ;)15:47
X-Fadeandre__: Do you want to add a task?15:48
dnearyI should be fine.15:48
andre__no, i think 3846 will give me enough work for next weeks :-/15:48
X-Fadeandre__: It is not in the tasks list yet, can you add to the tasks?15:49
andre__ah, sure, will do15:49
X-Fadebergie: Want to add any tasks?15:49
bergienope, I think the redesign and some performance stuff should keep us busy15:50
X-FadeOk.15:50
X-Fadetekojo: Anything you want to have added?15:51
tekojoNot that I can think of right now15:51
* Jaffa has two: #3692 and #3911 are both karma related bugs. If there's an upcoming election, these - and any other karma bugs - should be resolved as a matter of urgency15:51
X-FadeJaffa: Yes, let's set them to high priority.15:51
JaffaAnyone aware of any others apart from those two?15:52
* Jaffa will bump the priority after this.15:52
X-FadeJaffa: All other karma items seem to work fine.15:52
X-FadeJaffa: It is just that the mail import has issues and needs to be fixed and mail needs to be re-imported.15:53
JaffaThere's also been a suggestion about the mailing list karma bonuses, and the IRC karma bonuses.15:53
JaffaI don't know if there are issues for those15:53
X-FadeJaffa: Yeah, mailinglist karma is hell to program ;)15:53
crashanddieX-Fade: how so?15:54
X-FadeAnd personally I don't see a lot of added value, but let's discuss that on the list :)15:54
dnearyAh - there was also one additional karma point: marka for mailing list membership15:54
dnearyBut maybe that's what you're talking about :)15:55
Jaffadneary: yeah15:55
X-Fadedneary: Yes, but any mail you send to the lists will give you the same thing. It also implies you are subscribed.15:55
X-FadeSo adding karma for being a passive member, I don't know :)15:56
dnearyX-Fade: The point, I guess, was to have a certain level of karma just for being on the list, even if you never post15:56
JaffaIndeed, for all the people who are aware of the issues, but never post.15:56
JaffaIt's a good idea, IMHO15:56
JaffaBut let's discuss it on the list15:56
bergiedneary: but there are many other ways to "subscribe" to the list beside regular subscription15:56
X-FadeSo see it as an incentive.15:56
dnearyYes, and that also came up on the mailing list15:57
Jaffabergie: So? If you take that argument, the whole karma system is flawed. The point is to catch the stuff we can, not try and model the universe15:57
X-FadeJaffa: I'm all for crediting _active_ contributions.15:57
JaffaX-Fade: raise it on the list15:58
JaffaLet's move on.15:58
X-FadeSending a mail isn't that big of an effort. Or commenting to a bug or editing a wiki page ;)15:58
dnearyOne person mentioned to me that they found the whole discussion "surreal" - every group has entry requirements, and he found it bizarre that we were wasting so much energy arguing that there shouldn't be any for Maemo15:58
X-FadeSo, anybody else want to add tasks?15:58
JaffaSuffice to say, there may be other karma things on the roadmap for maybe the next sprint15:58
dnearyAnyway - it's obviously something that a part of the community finds important, so we should try & improve the situation.15:58
X-FadeJaffa: Well, add them now or it will be for the next meeting.15:59
dnearyNext meeting15:59
X-FadeDoesn't mean we can't work on it between  meetings..15:59
dnearyI'll take the lead on addressing election issues, but I'll need your help or Bergie's to put in place extra karma measurements.15:59
HirvinenThe problem that was pointed out on the list is that if karma is used to decide whether one has a vote, giving out karma for only some methods of following the discussion is effectively a punishment against those who prefer other ways...16:00
X-FadeI think I don't want to add more tasks this month as the website will take enough of my time.16:00
dnearyAh - one other task16:01
bergiedneary: I'll try to get you the data you need16:01
X-FadeAny bugs that need to changed to High priority?16:01
dnearyX-Fade: Can I bug you for the various Karma changes we've made to update the wiki.maemo.org/Karma page, please?16:01
dnearyHirvinen: We live in a cruel, cruel world.16:02
X-FadeSure, everything should be in svn.16:02
dnearyThanks :) English would be quicker than python & php, but I'll ask if I need any insight16:04
X-FadeYes, will do ;)16:05
X-FadeI guess that if nobody has to add anything, we are done?16:06
tekojoOk, bye!16:08
dnearybye all16:08

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