maemo-meeting-2008-09-30

bergiehi all21:01
bergiewe have to stop meeting like this ;-)21:01
andre___hej hej.21:02
X-FadeHi.21:02
bergieany sign of qgil?21:02
X-FadeI'm sure he will be here shortly.21:02
bergieok... I won't have long this time, unfortunately21:03
X-FadeWell, I guess we can start with you when everybody is ready.21:03
bergieall right21:04
bergieI need to be in Otaniemi in about 1h :-)21:04
-!- qgil [n=qgil@a88-112-27-165.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #maemo-meeting21:05
X-FadeWell, drive fast on that bike :)21:05
qgilpant pant21:05
bergiehey qgil21:05
qgilsorry, domestic, real life dutis no IRC meeting would adjourn  :)21:05
bergieX-Fade: *fast* on *that* bike? you joking?21:05
qgilhi bergie, still alife?  ;)21:05
bergieqgil: at times :-)21:05
qgilalright...21:05
qgillemme open wiki pages...21:06
bergieyep... I unfortunately am a bit short on time, so maybe we can start here...21:06
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lardmanhello21:07
bergiehey21:07
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qgilok, let's start21:08
lcuko/ hi guys (and any sneaky ladies)21:08
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qgilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint5 - any comments bergie ?21:08
bergieqgil: well.. I've been mostly in Korea... but...21:08
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bergiethe ITT stuff started quite well... we just need to deploy the karma counter21:08
bergieif X-Fade has time this week we can do that21:08
dnearyhi21:09
dnearyAm I here now?21:09
bergieother than that, I think NetBlade and X-Fade know better how other Nemein tasks went21:09
* GeneralAntilles cackles.21:09
qgilhi dneary21:09
bergiedneary: no21:09
dnearySeems like I was the victim of a disconnection.21:09
qgilbergie: the ITt task consists in fact in many tasks21:09
X-Fadebergie: I got some specs from Reggie at least. But we need to work on that..21:09
qgildo you think all of them can be done in October or should be split?21:09
bergieqgil: I know... that was the initial thing21:09
lardmanbergie: karma's still broken for discussion?21:09
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X-Fadelardman: Seems to work now?21:09
lardmanhmm, I have 821:10
bergielardman: I think partially... some authors haven't been properly matched because of wrong email addresses21:10
dnearybergie: I also spoke to Roger and Reggie, they're working on a way to flag interesting threads as headlines and give us a lower-volume high-quality feed that way21:10
bergielardman: if you can post a bug on that?21:10
bergiedneary: ok, that is easy to add to site21:10
lardmanbergie: have done, will look for the #21:10
bergielardman: does it include your email address?21:10
lardmanof course, same one for both accountw21:10
bergieok21:11
qgilthe fact that http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:ITt_Collaboration is still a mess (no specific tasks/bugs identified) doesn't really help measuring the work21:11
bergieqgil: I know... I think the ITT wiki does that better21:11
X-FadeI guess it is better to split it up?21:11
bergiethey specify what they want from app catalog for example21:11
qgilbergie: so, what specifically do you take for October21:11
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Jaffa2Sorry, I'm late.21:12
bergieqgil: I've got about 1.5 weeks of Oct for you guys21:12
bergieso I can take plenty21:12
qgilwhat ITt rlated tasks will you get done in that time21:12
bergieITT seems most interesting ATM21:12
lardmanbergie: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=369221:12
bergiekarma count from ITT needs deployment, so that isn't a big deal21:12
bergiebut aggregating ITT stuff to site, providing needed app catalog feeds21:12
qgillardman, you selfish guy  :) can you please respect the agenda?  :)21:13
bergiethere's bunch of little things21:13
lardmansorry, you're in the bug too ;)21:13
bergielardman: thanks21:13
qgilbergie: just tell what you commit to  :)21:13
bergieqgil: I think for now, whatever ITT integration includes :-)21:13
Jaffa2Not *exactly* well defined, which is an important thing in an agile process ;-)21:14
bergiesorry, doing this meeting after couple of presentation preparation beers ;-)21:14
qgilbetter less and complete it than another vague task to be not-done21:14
bergieok, ok...21:14
bergie* ITT karma counting21:14
bergie* ITT app catalog feeds21:14
bergie* Showing ITT important topics on site21:14
qgilok21:14
bergie* and some slack for other things that come up21:14
qgilthese three21:14
qgilthese three  :)21:14
bergiesure, sure21:14
qgilIf you have time for more, you can do more21:15
qgilare you speaking on behalf of the rest of Nemein?21:15
bergiethis is speaking for me21:15
qgilfor the fast server (is marcell around?)21:15
qgilmarcel21:15
bergieI know rambo is pretty much busy, so he is available only as the server stuff requires21:16
qgilok, and about the brainstorming thing21:16
bergieah, another thing on my list (thanks Niels)... cleaning output on some emails in the forum21:16
bergieNetBlade is here (I hope)21:16
qgilok21:17
bergieok, seems he is only partially here21:17
qgilanything else from you then?21:17
bergieso maybe move to other people until he is back21:17
NetBladebergie: I'm here21:17
bergiecool21:17
bergieso... brainstorming for Sprint6?21:17
NetBladecan do21:17
qgilwell, in fact I have a different opinion  :/21:17
NetBladeif someone helps me defining what it should look like21:18
NetBladeqgil: all ears21:18
qgilI think we need to discuss further on this before going to spend XX hours porting the thing to Midgard21:18
NetBladeqgil: I was thinking the same. There's no idea to do anything, before we deside, do we need it and what's the point in that tool21:19
bergieso... discussion for Sprint6?21:19
qgilat the moment we have many fronts opened related to expanding/improving midgard related features, in the current sprint + backlog + bugs21:19
qgiland you guys are systematically busy21:19
qgilso I was thinking that as crazy as it sounds maybe it's better to pick that drupal module that Canonical is maintaining21:20
qgilyet another tool, but one that we know someone is maintaining21:20
qgiland at the end people want just that "what ubuntu has"21:20
qgilwe can discuss this during sprint6, yes21:20
bergiesomebody is maintaining the software, but then we end up easily in similar situations as with gforge21:20
qgildrupal is not like gforge21:21
qgila module of drupal is not like a whole gforge installation21:21
qgilbut we can discuss all this until agreeing on the best solution during october  :)21:21
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bergieok21:22
bergieanyway, better if you and NetBlade discuss that :-)21:22
NetBladeqgil: yeah, and after all, even we would be doing this on Midgard, we would still need a lot of talking about how it should work21:22
qgiland the council and community people interested, at th end this is for "thm"21:22
qgil"them"21:22
qgilok then21:23
qgilanything else from the Nemein front?21:23
NetBladebut, even if we start using the drupal for this, we need to deside the karma from the brainstorm21:23
qgillike with the MediaWiki, I'm more concerned about granting the core functionality and 1001 little bugs than about karma or even login integration21:24
NetBlade:P21:24
qgilanything else from the Nemein front?21:24
NetBladeqgil: not from my point at least21:25
bergieqgil: beside the work I and NetBlade will be doing? And rambo's work with the servers... no21:25
qgilbergie: you have one bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1751 as high21:25
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qgilok, let's move on21:26
bergieqgil: yep... I've kept the calendar out-of-focus as that hasn't really seemed of much interest to anybody in the community21:26
timsamoffIs the calendar function actually something that needs to be developed/maintained?21:26
timsamoffIs it seen as an "important" feature?21:26
* dneary thinks no21:26
timsamoffI agree (for now).21:27
Jaffa2It seems to be a "look what midgard can do", rather than something we actually need.21:27
qgilah, I thought it was about the current calendar in the home21:27
NetBladebergie & qgil: I can have a look about that calendar ie 6 bug next week21:27
bergieJaffa2: I think the Nokia guys just wanted to showcase the new browser with it21:27
dnearyIf we want a shared calendar, there are online services which do that21:27
qgilI just wontfixed since we decided to kill the calendar app21:27
bergieok, good21:27
qgilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint5 - any more comments?21:28
bergieI don't think the people who were working on the calendar (from Nemein *or* Nokia) are present anyway ;-)21:28
qgilfyi https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&classification=maemo.org+Website&component=Calendar&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype121:29
bergieqgil: yep, I guess they can be safely wontfixed21:29
qgilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint5 - any more comments? If not let's talk about the october sprint commitments21:29
bergiewe haven't done anything on those as the need from Nokia's end has been unclear21:29
dnearyqgil: Just to say (I could wait till later, I guess) that the 20% figure I've got on improving maemo.org is probably being a little harsh21:30
dnearySince the high plan has moved along, and we're now in an action phase21:30
qgildneary: however, I don't think we have a clear plan written anywhere...  :)21:31
GeneralAntilleshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Improving_maemo.org/proposal21:31
dnearywell, there was Task:Improving maemo.org/proposal21:31
dnearyBut I guess that's not a concrete A + B = C21:32
timsamoffNot at all. ;)21:32
bergieqgil: do you have enough input from me regarding Oct?21:32
timsamoffI assume that some of the actual "design" will drive the plan.21:32
qgilconclusion about sprint5, 7 tasks appear as done21:32
dnearyMe too21:32
qgil12 tasks not done21:33
dnearyPlus a clarification of how maemo.org related to maemo.nokia.com21:33
timsamoffYes. Important.21:33
qgilonce again, something is wrong in the way we plan sprints21:33
timsamoffAlthough, I'm starting to get the picture.21:33
qgilbtw, no bugs appear as solved, from a list of 11 HIGH priority bugs21:33
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X-Fadeqgil: That is a live list. So no closed bugs in there :)21:34
qgilrecommendation: can we please stick each one on a single task (or two) until we complete it?21:34
qgilah ok, can we please fix but not close bugs during a sprint so we have a better idea of the progress?21:34
* Jaffa2 would say we're experiencing similar problems with our agile timeboxes (you can't sprint all the time: you collapse ;-)) at work.21:35
bergieqgil: it is up to the reporters to close...21:35
Jaffa2We resolve, but only close bugs at the end of a period.21:35
X-Fadeqgil: Yes, will fix that in the wiki.21:35
Jaffa2bergie: it's up to us to provide a clear workflow21:35
qgilanyway, about the tasks21:35
qgilnobody says you have to be stressed in a sprint21:35
bergieJaffa2: agreed21:35
qgilmost of those tasks rely on people that are being paid for their work21:36
dnearyX-Fade: Any idea how many were added to the sprint?21:36
qgil"be stressed" is never part of the requirements21:36
qgilnobody is forcing anybody to take more work in these sprint meetings21:36
X-Fadedneary: I was not there ;)21:36
bergieqgil: my Sprint5 task was getting ITT collaboration started, and I think that worked OK, even though I was swordfighting in Korea for 2 weeks instead of doing maemo21:36
qgilso my guess is that we simply are unable to plan properly few weeks ahead21:36
qgillesson about ITt task: tasks need to be well defined so we can consider them DONE21:37
qgil(by the way, that was a lesson we said that was learned in more than a sprint)21:37
bergieqgil: I agreed... ITT collaboration as whole is a *long term* thing21:37
qgilguys I'm not slashing anybody, I just have here and now this role of reminding us what we are doing not very well :)21:38
Jaffa2IME, at work people often don't take into account that the number of days available doesn't correlate with the number of "mandays" of work they'll accomplish. Hence things like MoSCoW priortisation and stuff. But even after nearly a year, we're still struggling to get onto anything but the "MUST"s21:38
bergieanyway, time for me to head out... sorry I couldn't stay the whole meeting this time, guys21:38
qgilso now it's the time to show that we have learned something elkse in the past sprint, when planning the october meeting21:38
qgilthanks bergie21:38
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dnearyOK - I'll go first on the chopping block :)21:39
dnearyA mix of stuff took time this month for me - no excuses, just explanations.21:39
timsamoffThere are a lot of BIG tasks that will remain long-term... Maybe these should be left out of the Sprints and moved to some other list?21:39
qgilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/October_08_Sprint - forget about the tasks DONE (I will edit later)21:40
qgillet's go through the ones carried from the last sprint21:40
Jaffa2timsamoff: Or clearly identified, manageable goals within a sprint with a clear binary yes/no completion *at the start of the sprint*21:40
dnearyImproving maemo.org21:40
qgilNiels, your tasks21:40
X-Fadeqgil: Phonecall.21:40
qgilor ok, dneary21:40
dnearyI think we've made good headway, and I thing that the Summit and the IRC meeting last week were very useful for it21:40
dnearyqgil: Sorry - I offered to go first - if you want to take Niels first, I'll wait21:41
qgilwhat can be DONE in october about improving maemo.org, dneary ?21:41
dneary1. Work on a layout of maemo.org/community, and get Tim's work deployed21:41
dneary2. Finalise the front page design21:42
qgil1. is http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Improving_maemo.org/community - a separate task in the backlog21:42
dneary3. Work with INdT to get a theme proposal for maemo.org (perhaps the theme won't be available in October, but I'm hopeful)21:42
qgil2 looks like a very specific task, yes21:42
dnearyAnd 4. Propose a new structure for maemo.org/development21:43
dnearywhich is right now a disaster21:43
qgilhowever, the completion would depend on the OpenBossa guys, so what about having a well defined spec ready for designers and coders to complte during November?21:43
dnearyAnd that's it, I think21:43
timsamoff1. There are a few more "community" oriented aspects that have arisen between the last time I worked on it and now.21:43
dnearyOn the 3, I'm not sure how well defined the spec will be before we start working together21:43
GeneralAntillesqgil, well, that's assuming we want to go with OpenBossa's design, no?21:44
qgilGeneralAntilles: sure21:44
dnearyI also want to leave an option open to invite community proposals for the theme21:44
Jaffa2Agreed21:44
timsamoffIs OpenBossa considering the proposals or... What is that request for?21:44
timsamoffAh. Ok.21:44
dnearytimsamoff: OpenBossa will be making at least one proposal21:44
* Jaffa2 doesn't want them to think they're "doing" it, and for us to just sit around waiting for a golden egg.21:44
qgilGeneralAntilles: the idea was to find a professional designer that would create the graphics and complete the layout - pure graphic design work21:44
dnearyI guess that I'll be considering them (or composing a group to consider them) again21:45
GeneralAntillesqgil, have you seen Bundyo's submission?21:45
qgilif you or someone thinks that there are bettr alternatives, we can discuss them during october21:45
qgilGeneralAntilles: yes, I have21:45
dnearyThe team we had for the logo was good - if Peter and Tim are up for it again, I'd be happy to do it as a 3 person group21:45
timsamoff GeneralAntilles: Looks to business-oriented to me.21:45
timsamoffSure.21:45
Jaffa2dneary: I'd like to see the council more involved for this21:45
Jaffa2It's supposed to be a "community" site (now), after all21:46
timsamoff;)21:46
dnearyJaffa2: The community doesn't start & finish with the council21:46
qgilok, so here there is a task for the sprint: decide who & how will work on the graphic design21:46
Jaffa2dneary: more so than people employed by Nokia, perhaps?21:46
dnearyJaffa2: I'd like to think equally21:47
Jaffa2And I said *more* involved, not *solely* involved.21:47
dnearyBut in any case...21:47
Jaffa2dneary: me too21:47
timsamoffProposal: Is OpenBossa up for working on the technical/design aspects of whichever design is chosen? (I.e., they're being paid, correct?)21:47
qgilok, so here there is a task for the sprint: decide who & how will work on the graphic design - who wants to take it?21:47
dnearyTim is on the council, and I'd be happy to have input from graphically inclined council members21:47
qgilwe won't solve this now21:47
lardmandneary: how inclined are the rest of us then? :)21:47
* dneary thinks that Tim & Jaffa2 will be more interested than lardman 21:48
timsamofflardman: "Inclined" is subjective.21:48
qgiler... who takes it?21:48
* lardman is interested, just probably not overly able21:48
timsamoffI'm on for sure.21:48
timsamoffAlthough, I'll have my own submissions.21:48
dnearyI will take it21:48
qgilok21:48
dnearyAs a co-ordinating role21:48
dnearyà la the logo contest21:48
timsamoffThat works.21:49
qgilok, going back to dneary ś list21:49
qgil1. timsamoff do you commit on anything for the Community section?21:49
timsamoffI will help reduce the text and make "web-ready."21:50
timsamoffAnd add a few new things.21:50
qgilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Improving_maemo.org/community21:50
dnearyqgil: I mailed tim and marcelo a few minutes ago to see if we can start working on a layout proposal21:50
timsamoffdneary: Responded already.21:51
qgilI mean, there is a big difference between the text shown in the main page and the ideas discussed in the discussion page21:51
qgilI'd be happy if there would be just a single plan at the end of the mon th21:51
timsamoffI will help with this -- working into my first design submission now./21:52
qgilnote that the perfect plan on the Community page/section depends on the plan for the home21:52
timsamoffqgiln: Agreed.21:52
qgil"help with this" means that you coordinate and commit to the task  :)21:52
timsamoffYes. Sorry. Must be more clear. :p21:52
qgil"4. Propose a new structure for maemo.org/development"21:53
dnearyYup, that's all me21:53
dnearystructure & content21:53
dnearyI may need help with layout21:53
qgilmmm... are you considering that thing about the official docs going eventually to Forum Nokia?21:53
qgilwe need to put them in the loop21:53
dnearyI need to know more about that21:54
dnearyI haven't heard anything about it yet21:54
dnearyBut as far as I can tell, what will change when that happens is that I'll need to change links21:54
qgilit's not only about knowing the plan, since the plan needs to be laborated21:54
lardmanI don't see any problem with simply changing the urls, or do we need some sort of link back?21:54
timsamoffRe: Layout... We need to consider that the "layout" for all pages will be guided by the layout for the home page. Maybe not so much work needs to be done on individual page layout for now?21:55
dnearyMy plan for the development page is that we have 4 types of information made most prominent: tutorials & guides, reference documentation, developer forums and SDK downloads21:55
lardmansounds good to me21:55
qgil"structure" means structure: tree of pages and perhaps the structure of the main page21:56
qgilok21:56
dnearyqgil: Sure - but content affords structure21:56
timsamoffqgil: Got it.21:56
* GeneralAntilles would think Forum Nokia and maemo.nokia.com needs to put _us_ in the loop more than we need to put them into it.21:56
dnearyand content requires some layout21:56
dnearyTo be effective21:56
qgilthen it looks like we have the tasks related to maemo.org improvement defined - any questions, proposals about this?21:57
timsamoffWe need to have _more_ than just the home page design, of course.21:58
qgilGeneralAntilles: if you think that people like Marcel or myself belong to "we", you will realize that the plan needs to be started by "us" :)21:58
qgiltimsamoff: what "more"?21:58
dnearyqgil: Oh - one other thing I would like to do this month: 5. Kill old wiki21:58
timsamoffSubpages (e.g., development, community, etc.)... The home page is one beast... Allowing for other web content is completely another.21:58
qgildneary: If you really think you are not taking too many tasks...21:59
GeneralAntilleskillkillkill21:59
GeneralAntillesI can help with that one.21:59
timsamoffSo, design proposals need to account for these things as well.21:59
qgilGeneralAntilles: you also mean "commit" when you say "help with"?  :)21:59
timsamoffdneary: How much more content needs to be ported would you say?21:59
dnearyqgil: Maybe22:00
dnearyBut with that one, I expect some help ;)22:00
timsamoff...or "commits." ;)22:00
dnearytimsamoff: Front page, four or five portal pages (and Downloads and News don't need much work)22:00
dnearyThe wiki - some content needs reviewing22:00
qgil"I can commit with that one", he would want to say  :)22:00
GeneralAntillesWell, 1. Salvage whatever's salvageable and move it to the mediawiki 2. Determine which old articles need to be replaced with redirects and get that worked out 3. Kill the old wiki.22:00
dnearyAnd that's as far as I see it going22:01
timsamoffdneary: Re: layouts: Ok. We'll see. ;)22:01
dnearyThe rest is in modifying structure, and ensuring we're putting the best stuff more prominently22:01
qgilGeneralAntilles: so, wnhat are you commiting to in october in relation  to old wiki?22:01
dnearyI see it like laying out a supermarket by reducing inventory and looking at shelf layout22:01
GeneralAntillesqgil, those three.22:02
qgilok22:02
timsamoffOT: Are there plans on better integrating the (new) wiki with the overall site design -- currently, it seems rather finicky. Or, is this something to wait on?22:02
qgilanything else related to maemo.org improvements?22:02
dnearyqgil: In that case, I'll be Robin to GA's Batman on that one22:02
GeneralAntillestimsamoff, yes, kinda waiting on the new design right now, thoug.h22:02
X-Fadetimsamoff: I guess that can be done in one go.22:02
dnearytimsamoff: Let's commit to doing that next month22:03
timsamoffGeneralAntilles X-Fade: Ok. Makes sense... Just wondering.22:03
X-Fadetimsamoff: Didn't want to invest  to much time in fixing an old layout.22:03
qgilI guess it's clear to everybody that hopefully all tasks (committed by one person) would get help from others22:03
qgildneary: doing what next month?22:03
dnearyqgil: Pruning the new wiki & integrating it better into maemo.org22:04
qgilok to pruning as GeneralAntilles has said22:04
qgilbut there is no point integrating to a design we are going to scrap before the end of the year...22:04
timsamoffqgil: I'll agree to that. Too much other stuff going on now.22:05
qgilso... anything related to improving maemo.org?22:05
qgilelse22:05
qgilX-Fade: are you ready now?22:05
X-Fadeqgil: Sure ;)22:05
timsamoffMaybe dneary, Jaffa2, and I can email separately to talk about proposal submissions, etc.22:06
X-Fadeqgil: Was just a 5 minute phonecall.22:06
GeneralAntillestimsamoff, -community22:06
qgilX-Fade: about your http://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/October_08_Sprint#Tasks22:06
timsamoffRight.22:06
X-Fadeqgil: Ok, the better categories thing.22:06
X-FadeI really want to do this this sprint. And I think Jaffa2 can help me? :)22:07
qgildo *you* need to push this one?22:07
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X-Fadeqgil: Well, it is in my interest too. So pushing or helping..22:08
X-Fadehttps://wiki.maemo.org/Package_Categories22:08
X-FadeAnybody can push it, I guess.22:08
qgilit's there since June and you haven't stopped doing other things22:08
X-Fadeqgil: Sure, but there was the holiday too ;)22:09
qgileither you can focus and complet, or someone else dos, or we decide is not that urgent and put it back to the backlog22:09
lardmanX-Fade: would it be worth starting the conversation rolling on -devel and see which way people go?22:09
qgil(the "e" in my keyboard is dying...)22:09
qgilok, let's keep it there then22:09
X-Fadeqgil: I guess I will push it, because there doesn't seem to be much coming from others.22:09
timsamoffqgil: I think this is VERY important in lieu of Fremantle.22:09
X-FadeAnd I do think it is important too.22:10
lardmanX-Fade: I'm all for placing non-conformant packages in a section in app manager named "others"22:10
qgiltimsamoff: I have no doubt it is important - I'm just remembering that every sprint other things more important seems to be upfront22:10
GeneralAntilles"useless crap"22:10
lardmanhmm, other is already there22:10
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lardmanGeneralAntilles: +122:10
qgilX-Fade: any other task you want to bring in?22:11
X-Fadeqgil: Reduce the number of external repositories.22:11
X-Fadehttps://wiki.maemo.org/Reducing_number_of_external_repositories#Repositories22:11
GeneralAntillesAlready going exceptionally well22:12
qgilok22:12
X-FadeI guess those too will be a lot of work.22:12
qgilok22:12
lardmanlong term strategy I fear22:12
qgilIs ferenc here?22:12
X-FadeHe doesn't seem to be online.22:13
X-FadeBut I'm not sure if he can do much.22:13
qgilok, we will ask him about that task that belongs to 100Days and hasn't apparently progressed since he volunteered22:13
qgilmmm should we put it in the backlog then?22:13
qgilI really don't enjoy carrying tasks just because22:14
X-FadeWell, we can't decide for him. So let us do that.22:14
qgilok22:14
qgilandre___:22:14
andre___yupp?22:14
qgilyour http://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/October_08_Sprint#Tasks22:15
andre___First of all a community announcement: Apologies from karsten, he has a university exam tomorrow. Karsten is going to be the Fremantle UI Framework "bugmaster" from October on.22:15
andre___plans for the next sprint:22:15
andre___start working full-time (iirc). three days of vacation in the middle of october (exam).22:15
qgilFremantle UI Framework "bugmaster"? That's news even for me  :)22:15
andre___start with the trivial component reorg stuff to get that task to 70-80% (e.g. giving maps bugs a proper component etc - those things that shouldn't trigger any conflicts but make things really clearer and easier). start discussing the more complicated 30% rest with community22:15
andre___heh. now you know. Rodrigo announced that at Maemo summit22:16
andre___definitely need to blog/post about it, wanted to have a first proposal done at the beginning of this week, but last week's gnome 2.24.0 release and yesterday's 4.1.whatever release took me some time. definitely next week22:16
andre___second task: sort out both important and trivial enhancement requests and discuss them with nokia's product managers for fremantle22:16
andre___that's the plans.22:16
* lardman has to go22:17
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qgilok andre___ - the second task is new then22:17
andre___yupp22:17
qgildo you know anything about karsten's tasks?22:17
andre___his answer was "see my blog and the Sprint wikipage"22:18
andre___I think he won't spend that much time on maemo in october22:18
andre___just had a very short talk with him a few hours ago22:18
qgil"See bug 1417, bug 3350, bug 3577 and some minor issues. Guided submission form pending, needs cleanup first. "22:18
qgilthe bugs are dealt as bugs and they are not HIGH now, so we take them out and you/he will decide when to address them22:19
andre___o22:19
andre___k22:19
qgil"Guided submission" is a task per se, but if he is going to be busy we better don't list it now22:19
qgil"Work on Bugzilla weekly summary functionality" should go to backlog as well, then I guess22:20
andre___yeah22:20
qgilone question about this bugmaster thing22:20
qgilis this a bugmaster for the public bugs, or for all of them, only the internal...?22:21
andre___as far as i know, it's internal at the start22:21
andre___ask Rodrigo, or Karsten who's going to be at Helsinki at Friday :)22:21
qgilok - I'll ask Rodrigo22:21
qgilheh, Karsten visiting us - schön22:22
qgilanything else andre___ ?22:22
andre___yeah. have a beer with him!22:22
andre___no, nothing else right now22:22
qgilis Marcell around?22:22
qgilor Tero?22:23
qgilX-Fade: what do you know about http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Fast_Server ?22:23
qgilactually22:24
qgilwhat I know is that they planned to have it completed it in the sprint522:24
qgilbut, but, but22:24
X-FadeLet's say there are some isp issues ;)22:24
qgilsome things have been implemented but still some thingies going on in the new infra22:24
qgil but I'd say their plan is to have everything working just fine during october22:25
X-FadeI guess there will be some changes later this week.22:25
qgilkeeping the task, and I will ask Marcell to report more if possible22:25
X-FadeBut you'd better ask tekojo.22:25
qgilor actually Tero, who is the project manager now22:25
X-FadeYs.22:25
qgilok22:26
X-FadeHmm packetloss on my e too ;)22:26
qgilthen about my tasks22:26
qgilTask:Maemo_contributions to open source projects - I guess we have everything to do a first decent version22:27
qgilnow including all the new upstream components for Fremantle22:27
qgilTask:Maemo_public_roadmapping_process .... I'd should put this one back to the backlog in order to complete the other ones started22:28
qgilnow most of Fremantle is public and I need to put it somewhere in a decent way, I guess the most urgent need for roadmapping plans are satisfied22:28
qgilI wish to take the roadmapping task in November22:28
qgil"Explanation of the reasons why the closed source packages are closed " I did the internal homework discussing with the parts involved22:29
qgilI have to publish the page in the wiki22:29
qgilbut then going through the list of packages is going to take more time22:29
qgilI'll try though, perhaps to answer on those packages that get direct questions e.g. tablet-ui22:30
X-FadeI guess it can help if people prioritized the list?22:31
qgilX-Fade: definitely22:31
qgilThere is not an internal list where you can find automagically the reasons behind each closed package22:32
GeneralAntillesHehe22:32
qgilIn most cases it's about going and asking the owners22:32
qgilof each package22:32
qgilwell, it's not like that because e.g. the product or project manager of an area knows about the closed packages in that area22:33
X-FadeA Top 10 can cover a lot and seems to be a reasonable amount of work?22:33
qgilbut definitely it would help to know what matters most22:33
qgildal22:33
qgildeal22:33
timsamoffqgil: Matters most to...?22:33
X-FadeCouncil guys: Go ;)22:33
qgilto the community22:34
timsamoffqgil: With awareness that this task will never be completed to the satisfaction of everyone. ;)22:34
timsamoffAnyway...22:34
timsamoffCouncil needs to finish out wiki page...pronto.22:34
qgiltimsamoff: I can complete it explaining why Nokia thinks component X should be closed22:34
timsamoff(our)22:34
qgil"making happy the community" is out of scope in this task  :)22:35
timsamoffqgil: Ah. Ok. :)22:35
qgilthen a task I'd like to bring in is http://wiki.maemo.org/Open_Source_Proof_Points22:35
GeneralAntillesI really liked to get something going for that.22:35
qgilat least start it e.g. identify 5 proof points to be developed in future sprints22:36
GeneralAntillesHaving a concrete example of the community taking Nokia open source code (say, Application manager) and really running with it would help a low in showing how lame the "differentiation" excuse really is.22:36
GeneralAntilless/low/lot/22:36
qgilmmm yes, but "proof points" should refer to things that have already happened  :)22:36
dnearyThings like Mamona?22:37
timsamoffBut not be overwhelming -- I'd hate to see an "I told you so" sort of dialog happen.22:37
qgilI'm happy working on the creation of new proof points, but this is another thing22:37
dnearyHow about community applications that rock?22:37
qgilwe have one month to discuss this  ;)22:37
dnearyThat's a pretty strong "proof point"22:37
* andre___ is away for 5 minutes22:38
qgilanything else about http://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/October_08_Sprint ?22:39
qgiloops, wait22:39
qgilhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_backlog22:39
qgilanybody willing to push a task from here?22:39
timsamoff8. seems to already be underway.22:40
qgilyes, I mean apart from those that were discussed already22:40
qgiland anybody willing to push a task from http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_proposals ?22:41
qgilooook22:42
timsamoffdneary: should we combine the itT wiki content with the prior task?22:42
timsamoffToo much to bite off?22:42
dnearytimsamoff: I have not been keen on it22:42
timsamoffOk.22:42
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack has moved pretty much all of the useful stuff already.22:42
dnearyI would say a big chunk to bite off22:42
GeneralAntilles(a lot of which had to be deleted anyway)22:42
timsamoffShould we strike it from the list then?22:43
GeneralAntillesI'd say, "yes"22:43
qgilI'd say "ok, then"22:43
GeneralAntilles:P22:43
timsamoffI'd say "cool."22:43
qgilbugs, are we happy with the current ones HIGH or should we promote any of the MEDIUM?22:44
qgillet me share the link...22:44
GeneralAntilles /topic22:44
qgilhttps://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&classification=maemo.org+Website&product=Website&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&priority=Medium&emailassigned_to1=1&e22:44
GeneralAntillesqgil, /topic.22:45
GeneralAntillesIf the itT stuff is being pushed for this sprint, I guess those should be HIGH.22:45
qgil16 bugs22:45
qgilGeneralAntilles: ah, thanks  :)22:45
qgilGeneralAntilles: agreed on ITt bugs22:45
qgilmy wish for HIGH is https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=369622:46
qgilX-Fade: do you allow me...?22:46
timsamoffHonestly, some of that stuff seems like it could be switched to LOW (e.g., 3565, 3512, etc.).22:46
timsamoffBut... Maybe it's just me.22:46
X-Fadeqgil: Yes, sure. I hoped that we had a redesign soon, but I guess that is not the case.22:46
GeneralAntillestimsamoff, well, 3512 is preventing people from using the wiki.22:46
timsamoffYeah, but... Special characters? I'm so oldskool. :p22:47
qgilX-Fade: this one is embarrassing since Explorer users see a really crappy page22:47
GeneralAntillestimsamoff, i.e., underscores22:47
timsamoffGeneralAntilles: Ah. I see.22:47
X-Fadeqgil: Yes, I have worked on it already. But it is not an easy fix.22:48
qgiltimsamoff: the maintainers of each component are supposed to keep their bugs with the right priority22:48
timsamoffqgil: Understood.22:48
qgilif you disagree with any of them just go and comment on the bug, you will help making some sense of this process22:48
qgilI bet there are many LOW that in fact are MEDIUM at least22:48
GeneralAntillesWell, maemo.org is a lot better off with bug priorities than Maemo Software. ;)22:49
timsamoffHmf! ;)22:49
timsamofftimsamoff must scoot -- family beckons.22:50
qgilGeneralAntilles: coincidentally, the amount of bugs per person is smaller in maemo.org  :)22:50
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qgilalright, anybody else wants to do/say anything about the october sprint?22:50
qgilanything else, I mean22:51
qgilthen... thanks for your participation22:51
qgilI'll update the october page tomorrow morning22:51
X-FadeI will upload the log tomorrow too.22:51
qgilX-Fade: please publish the log (or someone) since I'll go through it to edit the tasks22:52
qgilok  :)22:52
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, can you hit the improving maemo.org log, too?22:52
qgilgood night!!22:52
qgilah22:52
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Sure, why not. Give me more tasks ;) I don't do enough?22:52
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, clearly not.22:52
GeneralAntillesI still have things to do. :P22:53
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Seems so ;)22:53
dnearyThanks qgil22:53
dnearyNight22:53
Jaffa2night22:54
andre___good night folks, and thanks!22:55
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lardmannight all23:15

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