bergie | hi all | 21:01 |
---|---|---|
bergie | we have to stop meeting like this ;-) | 21:01 |
andre___ | hej hej. | 21:02 |
X-Fade | Hi. | 21:02 |
bergie | any sign of qgil? | 21:02 |
X-Fade | I'm sure he will be here shortly. | 21:02 |
bergie | ok... I won't have long this time, unfortunately | 21:03 |
X-Fade | Well, I guess we can start with you when everybody is ready. | 21:03 |
bergie | all right | 21:04 |
bergie | I need to be in Otaniemi in about 1h :-) | 21:04 |
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X-Fade | Well, drive fast on that bike :) | 21:05 |
qgil | pant pant | 21:05 |
bergie | hey qgil | 21:05 |
qgil | sorry, domestic, real life dutis no IRC meeting would adjourn :) | 21:05 |
bergie | X-Fade: *fast* on *that* bike? you joking? | 21:05 |
qgil | hi bergie, still alife? ;) | 21:05 |
bergie | qgil: at times :-) | 21:05 |
qgil | alright... | 21:05 |
qgil | lemme open wiki pages... | 21:06 |
bergie | yep... I unfortunately am a bit short on time, so maybe we can start here... | 21:06 |
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lardman | hello | 21:07 |
bergie | hey | 21:07 |
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qgil | ok, let's start | 21:08 |
lcuk | o/ hi guys (and any sneaky ladies) | 21:08 |
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qgil | http://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint5 - any comments bergie ? | 21:08 |
bergie | qgil: well.. I've been mostly in Korea... but... | 21:08 |
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bergie | the ITT stuff started quite well... we just need to deploy the karma counter | 21:08 |
bergie | if X-Fade has time this week we can do that | 21:08 |
dneary | hi | 21:09 |
dneary | Am I here now? | 21:09 |
bergie | other than that, I think NetBlade and X-Fade know better how other Nemein tasks went | 21:09 |
* GeneralAntilles cackles. | 21:09 | |
qgil | hi dneary | 21:09 |
bergie | dneary: no | 21:09 |
dneary | Seems like I was the victim of a disconnection. | 21:09 |
qgil | bergie: the ITt task consists in fact in many tasks | 21:09 |
X-Fade | bergie: I got some specs from Reggie at least. But we need to work on that.. | 21:09 |
qgil | do you think all of them can be done in October or should be split? | 21:09 |
bergie | qgil: I know... that was the initial thing | 21:09 |
lardman | bergie: karma's still broken for discussion? | 21:09 |
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X-Fade | lardman: Seems to work now? | 21:09 |
lardman | hmm, I have 8 | 21:10 |
bergie | lardman: I think partially... some authors haven't been properly matched because of wrong email addresses | 21:10 |
dneary | bergie: I also spoke to Roger and Reggie, they're working on a way to flag interesting threads as headlines and give us a lower-volume high-quality feed that way | 21:10 |
bergie | lardman: if you can post a bug on that? | 21:10 |
bergie | dneary: ok, that is easy to add to site | 21:10 |
lardman | bergie: have done, will look for the # | 21:10 |
bergie | lardman: does it include your email address? | 21:10 |
lardman | of course, same one for both accountw | 21:10 |
bergie | ok | 21:11 |
qgil | the fact that http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:ITt_Collaboration is still a mess (no specific tasks/bugs identified) doesn't really help measuring the work | 21:11 |
bergie | qgil: I know... I think the ITT wiki does that better | 21:11 |
X-Fade | I guess it is better to split it up? | 21:11 |
bergie | they specify what they want from app catalog for example | 21:11 |
qgil | bergie: so, what specifically do you take for October | 21:11 |
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Jaffa2 | Sorry, I'm late. | 21:12 |
bergie | qgil: I've got about 1.5 weeks of Oct for you guys | 21:12 |
bergie | so I can take plenty | 21:12 |
qgil | what ITt rlated tasks will you get done in that time | 21:12 |
bergie | ITT seems most interesting ATM | 21:12 |
lardman | bergie: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3692 | 21:12 |
bergie | karma count from ITT needs deployment, so that isn't a big deal | 21:12 |
bergie | but aggregating ITT stuff to site, providing needed app catalog feeds | 21:12 |
qgil | lardman, you selfish guy :) can you please respect the agenda? :) | 21:13 |
bergie | there's bunch of little things | 21:13 |
lardman | sorry, you're in the bug too ;) | 21:13 |
bergie | lardman: thanks | 21:13 |
qgil | bergie: just tell what you commit to :) | 21:13 |
bergie | qgil: I think for now, whatever ITT integration includes :-) | 21:13 |
Jaffa2 | Not *exactly* well defined, which is an important thing in an agile process ;-) | 21:14 |
bergie | sorry, doing this meeting after couple of presentation preparation beers ;-) | 21:14 |
qgil | better less and complete it than another vague task to be not-done | 21:14 |
bergie | ok, ok... | 21:14 |
bergie | * ITT karma counting | 21:14 |
bergie | * ITT app catalog feeds | 21:14 |
bergie | * Showing ITT important topics on site | 21:14 |
qgil | ok | 21:14 |
bergie | * and some slack for other things that come up | 21:14 |
qgil | these three | 21:14 |
qgil | these three :) | 21:14 |
bergie | sure, sure | 21:14 |
qgil | If you have time for more, you can do more | 21:15 |
qgil | are you speaking on behalf of the rest of Nemein? | 21:15 |
bergie | this is speaking for me | 21:15 |
qgil | for the fast server (is marcell around?) | 21:15 |
qgil | marcel | 21:15 |
bergie | I know rambo is pretty much busy, so he is available only as the server stuff requires | 21:16 |
qgil | ok, and about the brainstorming thing | 21:16 |
bergie | ah, another thing on my list (thanks Niels)... cleaning output on some emails in the forum | 21:16 |
bergie | NetBlade is here (I hope) | 21:16 |
qgil | ok | 21:17 |
bergie | ok, seems he is only partially here | 21:17 |
qgil | anything else from you then? | 21:17 |
bergie | so maybe move to other people until he is back | 21:17 |
NetBlade | bergie: I'm here | 21:17 |
bergie | cool | 21:17 |
bergie | so... brainstorming for Sprint6? | 21:17 |
NetBlade | can do | 21:17 |
qgil | well, in fact I have a different opinion :/ | 21:17 |
NetBlade | if someone helps me defining what it should look like | 21:18 |
NetBlade | qgil: all ears | 21:18 |
qgil | I think we need to discuss further on this before going to spend XX hours porting the thing to Midgard | 21:18 |
NetBlade | qgil: I was thinking the same. There's no idea to do anything, before we deside, do we need it and what's the point in that tool | 21:19 |
bergie | so... discussion for Sprint6? | 21:19 |
qgil | at the moment we have many fronts opened related to expanding/improving midgard related features, in the current sprint + backlog + bugs | 21:19 |
qgil | and you guys are systematically busy | 21:19 |
qgil | so I was thinking that as crazy as it sounds maybe it's better to pick that drupal module that Canonical is maintaining | 21:20 |
qgil | yet another tool, but one that we know someone is maintaining | 21:20 |
qgil | and at the end people want just that "what ubuntu has" | 21:20 |
qgil | we can discuss this during sprint6, yes | 21:20 |
bergie | somebody is maintaining the software, but then we end up easily in similar situations as with gforge | 21:20 |
qgil | drupal is not like gforge | 21:21 |
qgil | a module of drupal is not like a whole gforge installation | 21:21 |
qgil | but we can discuss all this until agreeing on the best solution during october :) | 21:21 |
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bergie | ok | 21:22 |
bergie | anyway, better if you and NetBlade discuss that :-) | 21:22 |
NetBlade | qgil: yeah, and after all, even we would be doing this on Midgard, we would still need a lot of talking about how it should work | 21:22 |
qgil | and the council and community people interested, at th end this is for "thm" | 21:22 |
qgil | "them" | 21:22 |
qgil | ok then | 21:23 |
qgil | anything else from the Nemein front? | 21:23 |
NetBlade | but, even if we start using the drupal for this, we need to deside the karma from the brainstorm | 21:23 |
qgil | like with the MediaWiki, I'm more concerned about granting the core functionality and 1001 little bugs than about karma or even login integration | 21:24 |
NetBlade | :P | 21:24 |
qgil | anything else from the Nemein front? | 21:24 |
NetBlade | qgil: not from my point at least | 21:25 |
bergie | qgil: beside the work I and NetBlade will be doing? And rambo's work with the servers... no | 21:25 |
qgil | bergie: you have one bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1751 as high | 21:25 |
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qgil | ok, let's move on | 21:26 |
bergie | qgil: yep... I've kept the calendar out-of-focus as that hasn't really seemed of much interest to anybody in the community | 21:26 |
timsamoff | Is the calendar function actually something that needs to be developed/maintained? | 21:26 |
timsamoff | Is it seen as an "important" feature? | 21:26 |
* dneary thinks no | 21:26 | |
timsamoff | I agree (for now). | 21:27 |
Jaffa2 | It seems to be a "look what midgard can do", rather than something we actually need. | 21:27 |
qgil | ah, I thought it was about the current calendar in the home | 21:27 |
NetBlade | bergie & qgil: I can have a look about that calendar ie 6 bug next week | 21:27 |
bergie | Jaffa2: I think the Nokia guys just wanted to showcase the new browser with it | 21:27 |
dneary | If we want a shared calendar, there are online services which do that | 21:27 |
qgil | I just wontfixed since we decided to kill the calendar app | 21:27 |
bergie | ok, good | 21:27 |
qgil | http://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint5 - any more comments? | 21:28 |
bergie | I don't think the people who were working on the calendar (from Nemein *or* Nokia) are present anyway ;-) | 21:28 |
qgil | fyi https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&classification=maemo.org+Website&component=Calendar&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1 | 21:29 |
bergie | qgil: yep, I guess they can be safely wontfixed | 21:29 |
qgil | http://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint5 - any more comments? If not let's talk about the october sprint commitments | 21:29 |
bergie | we haven't done anything on those as the need from Nokia's end has been unclear | 21:29 |
dneary | qgil: Just to say (I could wait till later, I guess) that the 20% figure I've got on improving maemo.org is probably being a little harsh | 21:30 |
dneary | Since the high plan has moved along, and we're now in an action phase | 21:30 |
qgil | dneary: however, I don't think we have a clear plan written anywhere... :) | 21:31 |
GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Improving_maemo.org/proposal | 21:31 |
dneary | well, there was Task:Improving maemo.org/proposal | 21:31 |
dneary | But I guess that's not a concrete A + B = C | 21:32 |
timsamoff | Not at all. ;) | 21:32 |
bergie | qgil: do you have enough input from me regarding Oct? | 21:32 |
timsamoff | I assume that some of the actual "design" will drive the plan. | 21:32 |
qgil | conclusion about sprint5, 7 tasks appear as done | 21:32 |
dneary | Me too | 21:32 |
qgil | 12 tasks not done | 21:33 |
dneary | Plus a clarification of how maemo.org related to maemo.nokia.com | 21:33 |
timsamoff | Yes. Important. | 21:33 |
qgil | once again, something is wrong in the way we plan sprints | 21:33 |
timsamoff | Although, I'm starting to get the picture. | 21:33 |
qgil | btw, no bugs appear as solved, from a list of 11 HIGH priority bugs | 21:33 |
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X-Fade | qgil: That is a live list. So no closed bugs in there :) | 21:34 |
qgil | recommendation: can we please stick each one on a single task (or two) until we complete it? | 21:34 |
qgil | ah ok, can we please fix but not close bugs during a sprint so we have a better idea of the progress? | 21:34 |
* Jaffa2 would say we're experiencing similar problems with our agile timeboxes (you can't sprint all the time: you collapse ;-)) at work. | 21:35 | |
bergie | qgil: it is up to the reporters to close... | 21:35 |
Jaffa2 | We resolve, but only close bugs at the end of a period. | 21:35 |
X-Fade | qgil: Yes, will fix that in the wiki. | 21:35 |
Jaffa2 | bergie: it's up to us to provide a clear workflow | 21:35 |
qgil | anyway, about the tasks | 21:35 |
qgil | nobody says you have to be stressed in a sprint | 21:35 |
bergie | Jaffa2: agreed | 21:35 |
qgil | most of those tasks rely on people that are being paid for their work | 21:36 |
dneary | X-Fade: Any idea how many were added to the sprint? | 21:36 |
qgil | "be stressed" is never part of the requirements | 21:36 |
qgil | nobody is forcing anybody to take more work in these sprint meetings | 21:36 |
X-Fade | dneary: I was not there ;) | 21:36 |
bergie | qgil: my Sprint5 task was getting ITT collaboration started, and I think that worked OK, even though I was swordfighting in Korea for 2 weeks instead of doing maemo | 21:36 |
qgil | so my guess is that we simply are unable to plan properly few weeks ahead | 21:36 |
qgil | lesson about ITt task: tasks need to be well defined so we can consider them DONE | 21:37 |
qgil | (by the way, that was a lesson we said that was learned in more than a sprint) | 21:37 |
bergie | qgil: I agreed... ITT collaboration as whole is a *long term* thing | 21:37 |
qgil | guys I'm not slashing anybody, I just have here and now this role of reminding us what we are doing not very well :) | 21:38 |
Jaffa2 | IME, at work people often don't take into account that the number of days available doesn't correlate with the number of "mandays" of work they'll accomplish. Hence things like MoSCoW priortisation and stuff. But even after nearly a year, we're still struggling to get onto anything but the "MUST"s | 21:38 |
bergie | anyway, time for me to head out... sorry I couldn't stay the whole meeting this time, guys | 21:38 |
qgil | so now it's the time to show that we have learned something elkse in the past sprint, when planning the october meeting | 21:38 |
qgil | thanks bergie | 21:38 |
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dneary | OK - I'll go first on the chopping block :) | 21:39 |
dneary | A mix of stuff took time this month for me - no excuses, just explanations. | 21:39 |
timsamoff | There are a lot of BIG tasks that will remain long-term... Maybe these should be left out of the Sprints and moved to some other list? | 21:39 |
qgil | http://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/October_08_Sprint - forget about the tasks DONE (I will edit later) | 21:40 |
qgil | let's go through the ones carried from the last sprint | 21:40 |
Jaffa2 | timsamoff: Or clearly identified, manageable goals within a sprint with a clear binary yes/no completion *at the start of the sprint* | 21:40 |
dneary | Improving maemo.org | 21:40 |
qgil | Niels, your tasks | 21:40 |
X-Fade | qgil: Phonecall. | 21:40 |
qgil | or ok, dneary | 21:40 |
dneary | I think we've made good headway, and I thing that the Summit and the IRC meeting last week were very useful for it | 21:40 |
dneary | qgil: Sorry - I offered to go first - if you want to take Niels first, I'll wait | 21:41 |
qgil | what can be DONE in october about improving maemo.org, dneary ? | 21:41 |
dneary | 1. Work on a layout of maemo.org/community, and get Tim's work deployed | 21:41 |
dneary | 2. Finalise the front page design | 21:42 |
qgil | 1. is http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Improving_maemo.org/community - a separate task in the backlog | 21:42 |
dneary | 3. Work with INdT to get a theme proposal for maemo.org (perhaps the theme won't be available in October, but I'm hopeful) | 21:42 |
qgil | 2 looks like a very specific task, yes | 21:42 |
dneary | And 4. Propose a new structure for maemo.org/development | 21:43 |
dneary | which is right now a disaster | 21:43 |
qgil | however, the completion would depend on the OpenBossa guys, so what about having a well defined spec ready for designers and coders to complte during November? | 21:43 |
dneary | And that's it, I think | 21:43 |
timsamoff | 1. There are a few more "community" oriented aspects that have arisen between the last time I worked on it and now. | 21:43 |
dneary | On the 3, I'm not sure how well defined the spec will be before we start working together | 21:43 |
GeneralAntilles | qgil, well, that's assuming we want to go with OpenBossa's design, no? | 21:44 |
qgil | GeneralAntilles: sure | 21:44 |
dneary | I also want to leave an option open to invite community proposals for the theme | 21:44 |
Jaffa2 | Agreed | 21:44 |
timsamoff | Is OpenBossa considering the proposals or... What is that request for? | 21:44 |
timsamoff | Ah. Ok. | 21:44 |
dneary | timsamoff: OpenBossa will be making at least one proposal | 21:44 |
* Jaffa2 doesn't want them to think they're "doing" it, and for us to just sit around waiting for a golden egg. | 21:44 | |
qgil | GeneralAntilles: the idea was to find a professional designer that would create the graphics and complete the layout - pure graphic design work | 21:44 |
dneary | I guess that I'll be considering them (or composing a group to consider them) again | 21:45 |
GeneralAntilles | qgil, have you seen Bundyo's submission? | 21:45 |
qgil | if you or someone thinks that there are bettr alternatives, we can discuss them during october | 21:45 |
qgil | GeneralAntilles: yes, I have | 21:45 |
dneary | The team we had for the logo was good - if Peter and Tim are up for it again, I'd be happy to do it as a 3 person group | 21:45 |
timsamoff | GeneralAntilles: Looks to business-oriented to me. | 21:45 |
timsamoff | Sure. | 21:45 |
Jaffa2 | dneary: I'd like to see the council more involved for this | 21:45 |
Jaffa2 | It's supposed to be a "community" site (now), after all | 21:46 |
timsamoff | ;) | 21:46 |
dneary | Jaffa2: The community doesn't start & finish with the council | 21:46 |
qgil | ok, so here there is a task for the sprint: decide who & how will work on the graphic design | 21:46 |
Jaffa2 | dneary: more so than people employed by Nokia, perhaps? | 21:46 |
dneary | Jaffa2: I'd like to think equally | 21:47 |
Jaffa2 | And I said *more* involved, not *solely* involved. | 21:47 |
dneary | But in any case... | 21:47 |
Jaffa2 | dneary: me too | 21:47 |
timsamoff | Proposal: Is OpenBossa up for working on the technical/design aspects of whichever design is chosen? (I.e., they're being paid, correct?) | 21:47 |
qgil | ok, so here there is a task for the sprint: decide who & how will work on the graphic design - who wants to take it? | 21:47 |
dneary | Tim is on the council, and I'd be happy to have input from graphically inclined council members | 21:47 |
qgil | we won't solve this now | 21:47 |
lardman | dneary: how inclined are the rest of us then? :) | 21:47 |
* dneary thinks that Tim & Jaffa2 will be more interested than lardman | 21:48 | |
timsamoff | lardman: "Inclined" is subjective. | 21:48 |
qgil | er... who takes it? | 21:48 |
* lardman is interested, just probably not overly able | 21:48 | |
timsamoff | I'm on for sure. | 21:48 |
timsamoff | Although, I'll have my own submissions. | 21:48 |
dneary | I will take it | 21:48 |
qgil | ok | 21:48 |
dneary | As a co-ordinating role | 21:48 |
dneary | à la the logo contest | 21:48 |
timsamoff | That works. | 21:49 |
qgil | ok, going back to dneary ś list | 21:49 |
qgil | 1. timsamoff do you commit on anything for the Community section? | 21:49 |
timsamoff | I will help reduce the text and make "web-ready." | 21:50 |
timsamoff | And add a few new things. | 21:50 |
qgil | http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Improving_maemo.org/community | 21:50 |
dneary | qgil: I mailed tim and marcelo a few minutes ago to see if we can start working on a layout proposal | 21:50 |
timsamoff | dneary: Responded already. | 21:51 |
qgil | I mean, there is a big difference between the text shown in the main page and the ideas discussed in the discussion page | 21:51 |
qgil | I'd be happy if there would be just a single plan at the end of the mon th | 21:51 |
timsamoff | I will help with this -- working into my first design submission now./ | 21:52 |
qgil | note that the perfect plan on the Community page/section depends on the plan for the home | 21:52 |
timsamoff | qgiln: Agreed. | 21:52 |
qgil | "help with this" means that you coordinate and commit to the task :) | 21:52 |
timsamoff | Yes. Sorry. Must be more clear. :p | 21:52 |
qgil | "4. Propose a new structure for maemo.org/development" | 21:53 |
dneary | Yup, that's all me | 21:53 |
dneary | structure & content | 21:53 |
dneary | I may need help with layout | 21:53 |
qgil | mmm... are you considering that thing about the official docs going eventually to Forum Nokia? | 21:53 |
qgil | we need to put them in the loop | 21:53 |
dneary | I need to know more about that | 21:54 |
dneary | I haven't heard anything about it yet | 21:54 |
dneary | But as far as I can tell, what will change when that happens is that I'll need to change links | 21:54 |
qgil | it's not only about knowing the plan, since the plan needs to be laborated | 21:54 |
lardman | I don't see any problem with simply changing the urls, or do we need some sort of link back? | 21:54 |
timsamoff | Re: Layout... We need to consider that the "layout" for all pages will be guided by the layout for the home page. Maybe not so much work needs to be done on individual page layout for now? | 21:55 |
dneary | My plan for the development page is that we have 4 types of information made most prominent: tutorials & guides, reference documentation, developer forums and SDK downloads | 21:55 |
lardman | sounds good to me | 21:55 |
qgil | "structure" means structure: tree of pages and perhaps the structure of the main page | 21:56 |
qgil | ok | 21:56 |
dneary | qgil: Sure - but content affords structure | 21:56 |
timsamoff | qgil: Got it. | 21:56 |
* GeneralAntilles would think Forum Nokia and maemo.nokia.com needs to put _us_ in the loop more than we need to put them into it. | 21:56 | |
dneary | and content requires some layout | 21:56 |
dneary | To be effective | 21:56 |
qgil | then it looks like we have the tasks related to maemo.org improvement defined - any questions, proposals about this? | 21:57 |
timsamoff | We need to have _more_ than just the home page design, of course. | 21:58 |
qgil | GeneralAntilles: if you think that people like Marcel or myself belong to "we", you will realize that the plan needs to be started by "us" :) | 21:58 |
qgil | timsamoff: what "more"? | 21:58 |
dneary | qgil: Oh - one other thing I would like to do this month: 5. Kill old wiki | 21:58 |
timsamoff | Subpages (e.g., development, community, etc.)... The home page is one beast... Allowing for other web content is completely another. | 21:58 |
qgil | dneary: If you really think you are not taking too many tasks... | 21:59 |
GeneralAntilles | killkillkill | 21:59 |
GeneralAntilles | I can help with that one. | 21:59 |
timsamoff | So, design proposals need to account for these things as well. | 21:59 |
qgil | GeneralAntilles: you also mean "commit" when you say "help with"? :) | 21:59 |
timsamoff | dneary: How much more content needs to be ported would you say? | 21:59 |
dneary | qgil: Maybe | 22:00 |
dneary | But with that one, I expect some help ;) | 22:00 |
timsamoff | ...or "commits." ;) | 22:00 |
dneary | timsamoff: Front page, four or five portal pages (and Downloads and News don't need much work) | 22:00 |
dneary | The wiki - some content needs reviewing | 22:00 |
qgil | "I can commit with that one", he would want to say :) | 22:00 |
GeneralAntilles | Well, 1. Salvage whatever's salvageable and move it to the mediawiki 2. Determine which old articles need to be replaced with redirects and get that worked out 3. Kill the old wiki. | 22:00 |
dneary | And that's as far as I see it going | 22:01 |
timsamoff | dneary: Re: layouts: Ok. We'll see. ;) | 22:01 |
dneary | The rest is in modifying structure, and ensuring we're putting the best stuff more prominently | 22:01 |
qgil | GeneralAntilles: so, wnhat are you commiting to in october in relation to old wiki? | 22:01 |
dneary | I see it like laying out a supermarket by reducing inventory and looking at shelf layout | 22:01 |
GeneralAntilles | qgil, those three. | 22:02 |
qgil | ok | 22:02 |
timsamoff | OT: Are there plans on better integrating the (new) wiki with the overall site design -- currently, it seems rather finicky. Or, is this something to wait on? | 22:02 |
qgil | anything else related to maemo.org improvements? | 22:02 |
dneary | qgil: In that case, I'll be Robin to GA's Batman on that one | 22:02 |
GeneralAntilles | timsamoff, yes, kinda waiting on the new design right now, thoug.h | 22:02 |
X-Fade | timsamoff: I guess that can be done in one go. | 22:02 |
dneary | timsamoff: Let's commit to doing that next month | 22:03 |
timsamoff | GeneralAntilles X-Fade: Ok. Makes sense... Just wondering. | 22:03 |
X-Fade | timsamoff: Didn't want to invest to much time in fixing an old layout. | 22:03 |
qgil | I guess it's clear to everybody that hopefully all tasks (committed by one person) would get help from others | 22:03 |
qgil | dneary: doing what next month? | 22:03 |
dneary | qgil: Pruning the new wiki & integrating it better into maemo.org | 22:04 |
qgil | ok to pruning as GeneralAntilles has said | 22:04 |
qgil | but there is no point integrating to a design we are going to scrap before the end of the year... | 22:04 |
timsamoff | qgil: I'll agree to that. Too much other stuff going on now. | 22:05 |
qgil | so... anything related to improving maemo.org? | 22:05 |
qgil | else | 22:05 |
qgil | X-Fade: are you ready now? | 22:05 |
X-Fade | qgil: Sure ;) | 22:05 |
timsamoff | Maybe dneary, Jaffa2, and I can email separately to talk about proposal submissions, etc. | 22:06 |
X-Fade | qgil: Was just a 5 minute phonecall. | 22:06 |
GeneralAntilles | timsamoff, -community | 22:06 |
qgil | X-Fade: about your http://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/October_08_Sprint#Tasks | 22:06 |
timsamoff | Right. | 22:06 |
X-Fade | qgil: Ok, the better categories thing. | 22:06 |
X-Fade | I really want to do this this sprint. And I think Jaffa2 can help me? :) | 22:07 |
qgil | do *you* need to push this one? | 22:07 |
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X-Fade | qgil: Well, it is in my interest too. So pushing or helping.. | 22:08 |
X-Fade | https://wiki.maemo.org/Package_Categories | 22:08 |
X-Fade | Anybody can push it, I guess. | 22:08 |
qgil | it's there since June and you haven't stopped doing other things | 22:08 |
X-Fade | qgil: Sure, but there was the holiday too ;) | 22:09 |
qgil | either you can focus and complet, or someone else dos, or we decide is not that urgent and put it back to the backlog | 22:09 |
lardman | X-Fade: would it be worth starting the conversation rolling on -devel and see which way people go? | 22:09 |
qgil | (the "e" in my keyboard is dying...) | 22:09 |
qgil | ok, let's keep it there then | 22:09 |
X-Fade | qgil: I guess I will push it, because there doesn't seem to be much coming from others. | 22:09 |
timsamoff | qgil: I think this is VERY important in lieu of Fremantle. | 22:09 |
X-Fade | And I do think it is important too. | 22:10 |
lardman | X-Fade: I'm all for placing non-conformant packages in a section in app manager named "others" | 22:10 |
qgil | timsamoff: I have no doubt it is important - I'm just remembering that every sprint other things more important seems to be upfront | 22:10 |
GeneralAntilles | "useless crap" | 22:10 |
lardman | hmm, other is already there | 22:10 |
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lardman | GeneralAntilles: +1 | 22:10 |
qgil | X-Fade: any other task you want to bring in? | 22:11 |
X-Fade | qgil: Reduce the number of external repositories. | 22:11 |
X-Fade | https://wiki.maemo.org/Reducing_number_of_external_repositories#Repositories | 22:11 |
GeneralAntilles | Already going exceptionally well | 22:12 |
qgil | ok | 22:12 |
X-Fade | I guess those too will be a lot of work. | 22:12 |
qgil | ok | 22:12 |
lardman | long term strategy I fear | 22:12 |
qgil | Is ferenc here? | 22:12 |
X-Fade | He doesn't seem to be online. | 22:13 |
X-Fade | But I'm not sure if he can do much. | 22:13 |
qgil | ok, we will ask him about that task that belongs to 100Days and hasn't apparently progressed since he volunteered | 22:13 |
qgil | mmm should we put it in the backlog then? | 22:13 |
qgil | I really don't enjoy carrying tasks just because | 22:14 |
X-Fade | Well, we can't decide for him. So let us do that. | 22:14 |
qgil | ok | 22:14 |
qgil | andre___: | 22:14 |
andre___ | yupp? | 22:14 |
qgil | your http://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/October_08_Sprint#Tasks | 22:15 |
andre___ | First of all a community announcement: Apologies from karsten, he has a university exam tomorrow. Karsten is going to be the Fremantle UI Framework "bugmaster" from October on. | 22:15 |
andre___ | plans for the next sprint: | 22:15 |
andre___ | start working full-time (iirc). three days of vacation in the middle of october (exam). | 22:15 |
qgil | Fremantle UI Framework "bugmaster"? That's news even for me :) | 22:15 |
andre___ | start with the trivial component reorg stuff to get that task to 70-80% (e.g. giving maps bugs a proper component etc - those things that shouldn't trigger any conflicts but make things really clearer and easier). start discussing the more complicated 30% rest with community | 22:15 |
andre___ | heh. now you know. Rodrigo announced that at Maemo summit | 22:16 |
andre___ | definitely need to blog/post about it, wanted to have a first proposal done at the beginning of this week, but last week's gnome 2.24.0 release and yesterday's 4.1.whatever release took me some time. definitely next week | 22:16 |
andre___ | second task: sort out both important and trivial enhancement requests and discuss them with nokia's product managers for fremantle | 22:16 |
andre___ | that's the plans. | 22:16 |
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qgil | ok andre___ - the second task is new then | 22:17 |
andre___ | yupp | 22:17 |
qgil | do you know anything about karsten's tasks? | 22:17 |
andre___ | his answer was "see my blog and the Sprint wikipage" | 22:18 |
andre___ | I think he won't spend that much time on maemo in october | 22:18 |
andre___ | just had a very short talk with him a few hours ago | 22:18 |
qgil | "See bug 1417, bug 3350, bug 3577 and some minor issues. Guided submission form pending, needs cleanup first. " | 22:18 |
qgil | the bugs are dealt as bugs and they are not HIGH now, so we take them out and you/he will decide when to address them | 22:19 |
andre___ | o | 22:19 |
andre___ | k | 22:19 |
qgil | "Guided submission" is a task per se, but if he is going to be busy we better don't list it now | 22:19 |
qgil | "Work on Bugzilla weekly summary functionality" should go to backlog as well, then I guess | 22:20 |
andre___ | yeah | 22:20 |
qgil | one question about this bugmaster thing | 22:20 |
qgil | is this a bugmaster for the public bugs, or for all of them, only the internal...? | 22:21 |
andre___ | as far as i know, it's internal at the start | 22:21 |
andre___ | ask Rodrigo, or Karsten who's going to be at Helsinki at Friday :) | 22:21 |
qgil | ok - I'll ask Rodrigo | 22:21 |
qgil | heh, Karsten visiting us - schön | 22:22 |
qgil | anything else andre___ ? | 22:22 |
andre___ | yeah. have a beer with him! | 22:22 |
andre___ | no, nothing else right now | 22:22 |
qgil | is Marcell around? | 22:22 |
qgil | or Tero? | 22:23 |
qgil | X-Fade: what do you know about http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Fast_Server ? | 22:23 |
qgil | actually | 22:24 |
qgil | what I know is that they planned to have it completed it in the sprint5 | 22:24 |
qgil | but, but, but | 22:24 |
X-Fade | Let's say there are some isp issues ;) | 22:24 |
qgil | some things have been implemented but still some thingies going on in the new infra | 22:24 |
qgil | but I'd say their plan is to have everything working just fine during october | 22:25 |
X-Fade | I guess there will be some changes later this week. | 22:25 |
qgil | keeping the task, and I will ask Marcell to report more if possible | 22:25 |
X-Fade | But you'd better ask tekojo. | 22:25 |
qgil | or actually Tero, who is the project manager now | 22:25 |
X-Fade | Ys. | 22:25 |
qgil | ok | 22:26 |
X-Fade | Hmm packetloss on my e too ;) | 22:26 |
qgil | then about my tasks | 22:26 |
qgil | Task:Maemo_contributions to open source projects - I guess we have everything to do a first decent version | 22:27 |
qgil | now including all the new upstream components for Fremantle | 22:27 |
qgil | Task:Maemo_public_roadmapping_process .... I'd should put this one back to the backlog in order to complete the other ones started | 22:28 |
qgil | now most of Fremantle is public and I need to put it somewhere in a decent way, I guess the most urgent need for roadmapping plans are satisfied | 22:28 |
qgil | I wish to take the roadmapping task in November | 22:28 |
qgil | "Explanation of the reasons why the closed source packages are closed " I did the internal homework discussing with the parts involved | 22:29 |
qgil | I have to publish the page in the wiki | 22:29 |
qgil | but then going through the list of packages is going to take more time | 22:29 |
qgil | I'll try though, perhaps to answer on those packages that get direct questions e.g. tablet-ui | 22:30 |
X-Fade | I guess it can help if people prioritized the list? | 22:31 |
qgil | X-Fade: definitely | 22:31 |
qgil | There is not an internal list where you can find automagically the reasons behind each closed package | 22:32 |
GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 22:32 |
qgil | In most cases it's about going and asking the owners | 22:32 |
qgil | of each package | 22:32 |
qgil | well, it's not like that because e.g. the product or project manager of an area knows about the closed packages in that area | 22:33 |
X-Fade | A Top 10 can cover a lot and seems to be a reasonable amount of work? | 22:33 |
qgil | but definitely it would help to know what matters most | 22:33 |
qgil | dal | 22:33 |
qgil | deal | 22:33 |
timsamoff | qgil: Matters most to...? | 22:33 |
X-Fade | Council guys: Go ;) | 22:33 |
qgil | to the community | 22:34 |
timsamoff | qgil: With awareness that this task will never be completed to the satisfaction of everyone. ;) | 22:34 |
timsamoff | Anyway... | 22:34 |
timsamoff | Council needs to finish out wiki page...pronto. | 22:34 |
qgil | timsamoff: I can complete it explaining why Nokia thinks component X should be closed | 22:34 |
timsamoff | (our) | 22:34 |
qgil | "making happy the community" is out of scope in this task :) | 22:35 |
timsamoff | qgil: Ah. Ok. :) | 22:35 |
qgil | then a task I'd like to bring in is http://wiki.maemo.org/Open_Source_Proof_Points | 22:35 |
GeneralAntilles | I really liked to get something going for that. | 22:35 |
qgil | at least start it e.g. identify 5 proof points to be developed in future sprints | 22:36 |
GeneralAntilles | Having a concrete example of the community taking Nokia open source code (say, Application manager) and really running with it would help a low in showing how lame the "differentiation" excuse really is. | 22:36 |
GeneralAntilles | s/low/lot/ | 22:36 |
qgil | mmm yes, but "proof points" should refer to things that have already happened :) | 22:36 |
dneary | Things like Mamona? | 22:37 |
timsamoff | But not be overwhelming -- I'd hate to see an "I told you so" sort of dialog happen. | 22:37 |
qgil | I'm happy working on the creation of new proof points, but this is another thing | 22:37 |
dneary | How about community applications that rock? | 22:37 |
qgil | we have one month to discuss this ;) | 22:37 |
dneary | That's a pretty strong "proof point" | 22:37 |
* andre___ is away for 5 minutes | 22:38 | |
qgil | anything else about http://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/October_08_Sprint ? | 22:39 |
qgil | oops, wait | 22:39 |
qgil | http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_backlog | 22:39 |
qgil | anybody willing to push a task from here? | 22:39 |
timsamoff | 8. seems to already be underway. | 22:40 |
qgil | yes, I mean apart from those that were discussed already | 22:40 |
qgil | and anybody willing to push a task from http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_proposals ? | 22:41 |
qgil | ooook | 22:42 |
timsamoff | dneary: should we combine the itT wiki content with the prior task? | 22:42 |
timsamoff | Too much to bite off? | 22:42 |
dneary | timsamoff: I have not been keen on it | 22:42 |
timsamoff | Ok. | 22:42 |
GeneralAntilles | andrewfblack has moved pretty much all of the useful stuff already. | 22:42 |
dneary | I would say a big chunk to bite off | 22:42 |
GeneralAntilles | (a lot of which had to be deleted anyway) | 22:42 |
timsamoff | Should we strike it from the list then? | 22:43 |
GeneralAntilles | I'd say, "yes" | 22:43 |
qgil | I'd say "ok, then" | 22:43 |
GeneralAntilles | :P | 22:43 |
timsamoff | I'd say "cool." | 22:43 |
qgil | bugs, are we happy with the current ones HIGH or should we promote any of the MEDIUM? | 22:44 |
qgil | let me share the link... | 22:44 |
GeneralAntilles | /topic | 22:44 |
qgil | https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&classification=maemo.org+Website&product=Website&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&priority=Medium&emailassigned_to1=1&e | 22:44 |
GeneralAntilles | qgil, /topic. | 22:45 |
GeneralAntilles | If the itT stuff is being pushed for this sprint, I guess those should be HIGH. | 22:45 |
qgil | 16 bugs | 22:45 |
qgil | GeneralAntilles: ah, thanks :) | 22:45 |
qgil | GeneralAntilles: agreed on ITt bugs | 22:45 |
qgil | my wish for HIGH is https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3696 | 22:46 |
qgil | X-Fade: do you allow me...? | 22:46 |
timsamoff | Honestly, some of that stuff seems like it could be switched to LOW (e.g., 3565, 3512, etc.). | 22:46 |
timsamoff | But... Maybe it's just me. | 22:46 |
X-Fade | qgil: Yes, sure. I hoped that we had a redesign soon, but I guess that is not the case. | 22:46 |
GeneralAntilles | timsamoff, well, 3512 is preventing people from using the wiki. | 22:46 |
timsamoff | Yeah, but... Special characters? I'm so oldskool. :p | 22:47 |
qgil | X-Fade: this one is embarrassing since Explorer users see a really crappy page | 22:47 |
GeneralAntilles | timsamoff, i.e., underscores | 22:47 |
timsamoff | GeneralAntilles: Ah. I see. | 22:47 |
X-Fade | qgil: Yes, I have worked on it already. But it is not an easy fix. | 22:48 |
qgil | timsamoff: the maintainers of each component are supposed to keep their bugs with the right priority | 22:48 |
timsamoff | qgil: Understood. | 22:48 |
qgil | if you disagree with any of them just go and comment on the bug, you will help making some sense of this process | 22:48 |
qgil | I bet there are many LOW that in fact are MEDIUM at least | 22:48 |
GeneralAntilles | Well, maemo.org is a lot better off with bug priorities than Maemo Software. ;) | 22:49 |
timsamoff | Hmf! ;) | 22:49 |
timsamoff | timsamoff must scoot -- family beckons. | 22:50 |
qgil | GeneralAntilles: coincidentally, the amount of bugs per person is smaller in maemo.org :) | 22:50 |
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qgil | alright, anybody else wants to do/say anything about the october sprint? | 22:50 |
qgil | anything else, I mean | 22:51 |
qgil | then... thanks for your participation | 22:51 |
qgil | I'll update the october page tomorrow morning | 22:51 |
X-Fade | I will upload the log tomorrow too. | 22:51 |
qgil | X-Fade: please publish the log (or someone) since I'll go through it to edit the tasks | 22:52 |
qgil | ok :) | 22:52 |
GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, can you hit the improving maemo.org log, too? | 22:52 |
qgil | good night!! | 22:52 |
qgil | ah | 22:52 |
X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Sure, why not. Give me more tasks ;) I don't do enough? | 22:52 |
GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, clearly not. | 22:52 |
GeneralAntilles | I still have things to do. :P | 22:53 |
X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Seems so ;) | 22:53 |
dneary | Thanks qgil | 22:53 |
dneary | Night | 22:53 |
Jaffa2 | night | 22:54 |
andre___ | good night folks, and thanks! | 22:55 |
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lardman | night all | 23:15 |
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