Fremantle Community SSU

Fremantle Community SSU

2010-11-01 16:05 UTC
Hello everyone :)

Some of you may have heard back in summer when I announced that I was
working on an SSU, however, I decided to postpone it till PR1.3's out.
Now that it's out, I decided to work on it again. Niels Breet (X-Fade) has
kindly set up the repository on
http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/.

Me and X-Fade have come to a conclusion that instead of faking the Nokia
meta-package, it would be better to make a new community one
(mp-fremantle-community-pr).
Unfortunately, while this might be the right way, it caused me some problems
with the enabler package, so to work around it, a terminal window is started
from HAM (postinst) and then the postinst exits, the user then has to exit
HAM and go back to the terminal window to continue installation.

I've yet to make a complete changelog for this repository, however, I can
confirm that https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10613 is no longer
reproducible with the new hildon-desktop in the repository, so that's a
start ;)
New system packages, all of them are based on the latest gitorious sources.
hildon-desktop (with Matan's patches) | hildon-home |
hildon-application-manager | hildon-status-menu | modest (with patches for
bmo bugs #3700 and #2563)

As per above, community patches are welcome for any of the system packages.

To enable the repository, open
http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/community-testing-fremantle.installon
the N900.

This is not a proper announcement for the SSU, but more of a prerelease
before it's posted on talk.maemo.org, so please, do not post about this on
talk.

I'd appreciate any testing, suggestions and bug reports about this SSU,
before I make a proper announcement about it.

I'd also like to thanks Niels and Lucas Maneos (the Diablo community SSU
maintainer) for their help in setting this up.

P.S. #maemo-ssu is the SSU's channel on Freenode.

-- Mohammad Abu-Garbeyyeh

  •  Reply

Re: Fremantle Community SSU

Koos Vriezen
Karma: 381
2010-11-01 16:15 UTC
2010/11/1 Mohammad Abu-Garbeyyeh <mohammad7410@gmail.com>:
> Hello everyone :)
>
> Some of you may have heard back in summer when I announced that I was
> working on an SSU, however, I decided to postpone it till PR1.3's out.

What is SSU?


> Now that it's out, I decided to work on it again. Niels Breet (X-Fade) has
> kindly set up the repository on
> http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/.
>
> Me and X-Fade have come to a conclusion that instead of faking the Nokia
> meta-package, it would be better to make a new community one
> (mp-fremantle-community-pr).
> Unfortunately, while this might be the right way, it caused me some problems
> with the enabler package, so to work around it, a terminal window is started
> from HAM (postinst) and then the postinst exits, the user then has to exit
> HAM and go back to the terminal window to continue installation.

What is HAM?

Darn, I feel so silly :)


Regards,

Koos Vriezen


> I've yet to make a complete changelog for this repository, however, I can
> confirm that https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10613 is no longer
> reproducible with the new hildon-desktop in the repository, so that's a
> start ;)
> New system packages, all of them are based on the latest gitorious sources.
> hildon-desktop (with Matan's patches) | hildon-home |
> hildon-application-manager | hildon-status-menu | modest (with patches for
> bmo bugs #3700 and #2563)
>
> As per above, community patches are welcome for any of the system packages.
>
> To enable the repository, open
> http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/community-testing-fremantle.install
> on the N900.
>
> This is not a proper announcement for the SSU, but more of a prerelease
> before it's posted on talk.maemo.org, so please, do not post about this on
> talk.
>
> I'd appreciate any testing, suggestions and bug reports about this SSU,
> before I make a proper announcement about it.
>
> I'd also like to thanks Niels and Lucas Maneos (the Diablo community SSU
> maintainer) for their help in setting this up.
>
> P.S. #maemo-ssu is the SSU's channel on Freenode.
>
> -- Mohammad Abu-Garbeyyeh
>
>
>
  •  Reply

Re: Fremantle Community SSU

Paul Hartman

2010-11-01 16:28 UTC
On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 11:15 AM, koos vriezen <koos.vriezen@gmail.com> wrote:
> What is SSU?
Seamless Software Update
http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU

> What is HAM?
Hildon Application Manager
http://hildon-app-mgr.garage.maemo.org/

HTH (Hope that helps :)
  •  Reply

Re: Fremantle Community SSU

Matan Ziv-Av
Karma: 583
2010-11-01 19:20 UTC
On Mon, 1 Nov 2010, Mohammad Abu-Garbeyyeh wrote:

> New system packages, all of them are based on the latest gitorious sources.

Do you think that the latest gitorious sources are a stable basis? Did
you inspect the patches that were applied since PR1.3?

> hildon-desktop (with Matan's patches) | hildon-home | hildon-application-manager | hildon-status-menu | modest (with
> patches for bmo bugs #3700 and #2563)
>
> As per above, community patches are welcome for any of the system packages.
>
> To enable the repository, open http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/community-testing-fremantle.install on the
> N900.
>
> This is not a proper announcement for the SSU, but more of a prerelease before it's posted on talk.maemo.org, so please,
> do not post about this on talk.

That does not sound right. It sounds like you are trying to split this
small community into a few communities.

> I'd appreciate any testing, suggestions and bug reports about this SSU, before I make a proper announcement about it.

I suggest that you include kernel-power.

> P.S. #maemo-ssu is the SSU's channel on Freenode.

I hope it does not sound too offensive, but IRC is not the right place
to manage software distribution.

I think that the start a community SSU should be in consulting with the
community about the goals of this project and the ways to achieve these
goals. Such a discussion needs to take place in a forum that is not real
time, and is archived for future reference.

I'll start this discussion:

What is your goal in setting up this SSU repository?


--
Matan.

  •  Reply

Re: Fremantle Community SSU

Till Harbaum
Karma: 664
2010-11-01 19:42 UTC
Hi,

Am Montag 01 November 2010 schrieb Matan Ziv-Av:
> I think that the start a community SSU should be in consulting with the
> community about the goals of this project and the ways to achieve these
> goals. Such a discussion needs to take place in a forum that is not real
> time, and is archived for future reference.
>
> I'll start this discussion:
>
> What is your goal in setting up this SSU repository?

Argh, please stop trying to stop people from doing things. If you want to do something differently, feel free to start something on your own. But do not hinder those who actually get something done. Even if you think it's the wrong way they are doing it. Maemo5 has a shrinking developer base and once a MeeGo handset is out the number of Maemo developers will shrink even faster. Be thankful that there still is someone who's actually willing to get his hands dirty ...

Till
  •  Reply

Re: Fremantle Community SSU

Andrew Flegg
Karma: 3342
2010-11-01 22:44 UTC
On Mon, Nov 1, 2010 at 19:20, Matan Ziv-Av <matan@svgalib.org> wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Nov 2010, Mohammad Abu-Garbeyyeh wrote:
>
>> New system packages, all of them are based on the latest gitorious
>> sources.
>
> Do you think that the latest gitorious sources are a stable basis? Did you
> inspect the patches that were applied since PR1.3?

Well, we won't know unless we test them, will we? Having said that, it
seems that the Nokia maintainers have been tidying up loose ends -
and, indeed, I hope we'll even see them contributing further now that
they have more free rein to do "what they've always wanted".

>> This is not a proper announcement for the SSU, but more of a prerelease
>> before it's posted on talk.maemo.org, so please,
>> do not post about this on talk.
>
> That does not sound right. It sounds like you are trying to split this small
> community into a few communities.

No, it sounds like getting proper experienced developer feedback when
launching something which has real possibility to lead to a reflash.
In particular, the process with the X Terminal is already a little
clunky (and didn't work for me directly; but did work when I ran the
postinst as root from another X Terminal, something I've already
reported to Mohammad).

> What is your goal in setting up this SSU repository?

AIUI (and Mohammad has the full backing of this council member), the
aim is to ensure that the community SSU is up and running to deliver
bug fixes and improvements to Maemo 5 now that Nokia have (most
likely) completely moved on. The long delay in getting similar set up
for Diablo meant that a lot of the impetus was lost. Now, however, the
N900 development community has yet to move on to Harmattan (and,
indeed, with some of the changes may not entirely) and has many more
eager users. It's the perfect time to start building on the starting
point delivered by Nokia. (For example, I already appreciated the
packaging that hrw did in the past, and Mohammad is now doing, of
Modest with the "proper quoting" and attribution patches the community
provided; but Nokia never shipped).

I can imagine a number of ways of getting involved if you want to
help, including carving out a space on wiki.maemo.org to deal
with/document the issues of and around:

* Release management - how does testing/QA/release work?
* Source code management - community SSU has branches in
gitorious, with "upstream" being the original projects with
their Nokia maintainers?
* Collaboration - new mailing list in addition to the IRC
channel?
* SSU utility development - improving the enabler, for example.
* Build process - are these packages being built from tarballs
by the autobuilder, or manually?

I'd like to thank Mohammad again for his efforts over the last few
months in starting this effort, and continuing with it now that
PR1.3's been released.

Cheers,

Andrew


--
Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org  |  http://www.bleb.org/
Maemo Community Council member
  •  Reply

Re: Fremantle Community SSU

Matan Ziv-Av
Karma: 583
2010-11-02 00:22 UTC
On Mon, 1 Nov 2010, Andrew Flegg wrote:

>
>>> This is not a proper announcement for the SSU, but more of a prerelease
>>> before it's posted on talk.maemo.org, so please,
>>> do not post about this on talk.
>>
>> That does not sound right. It sounds like you are trying to split this small
>> community into a few communities.
>
> No, it sounds like getting proper experienced developer feedback when
> launching something which has real possibility to lead to a reflash.

How do you expect to get developer's feedback when you distribute
binaries without appropriate source? Even if we ignore the GPL
violation, it does not make much sense.

>> What is your goal in setting up this SSU repository?
>
> AIUI (and Mohammad has the full backing of this council member), the
> aim is to ensure that the community SSU is up and running to deliver
> bug fixes and improvements to Maemo 5 now that Nokia have (most

That's a reasonable and desirable goal.

Which leaves many questions:

How will included improvements be decided?

Will there be an inclusive policy - every improvement that someone is
willing to work on will be included - or will there be a gatekeeper that
will decide what to include?

Were this issues discussed? Were they decided?

>
> I can imagine a number of ways of getting involved if you want to
> help, including carving out a space on wiki.maemo.org to deal
> with/document the issues of and around:
>
> * Release management - how does testing/QA/release work?

Shouldn't this be discussed, before being documented in wiki?


> I'd like to thank Mohammad again for his efforts over the last few
> months in starting this effort, and continuing with it now that
> PR1.3's been released.

Indeed, organizing and distributing is much harder and less fun than
actual developing, so we should be thankful for anyone who is willing to
do that, so I'll join your thanks to Mohammad, but will add a small
request:

Please, don't upload binaries without uploading corresponding source.



--
Matan.

  •  Reply

Re: Fremantle Community SSU

Timo Härkönen
Karma: 417
2010-11-02 06:10 UTC
Hi

2010/11/1 Mohammad Abu-Garbeyyeh <mohammad7410@gmail.com>

> Hello everyone :)
>
> Some of you may have heard back in summer when I announced that I was
> working on an SSU, however, I decided to postpone it till PR1.3's out.
> Now that it's out, I decided to work on it again. Niels Breet (X-Fade) has
> kindly set up the repository on
> http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/.
>
> Me and X-Fade have come to a conclusion that instead of faking the Nokia
> meta-package, it would be better to make a new community one
> (mp-fremantle-community-pr).
> Unfortunately, while this might be the right way, it caused me some
> problems with the enabler package, so to work around it, a terminal window
> is started from HAM (postinst) and then the postinst exits, the user then
> has to exit HAM and go back to the terminal window to continue installation.
>
> I've yet to make a complete changelog for this repository, however, I can
> confirm that https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10613 is no longer
> reproducible with the new hildon-desktop in the repository, so that's a
> start ;)
> New system packages, all of them are based on the latest gitorious sources.
> hildon-desktop (with Matan's patches) | hildon-home |
> hildon-application-manager | hildon-status-menu | modest (with patches for
> bmo bugs #3700 and #2563)
>
> As per above, community patches are welcome for any of the system packages.
>
>
Thanks for the effort.

To enable the repository, open
> http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/community-testing-fremantle.installon the N900.
>
> This is not a proper announcement for the SSU, but more of a prerelease
> before it's posted on talk.maemo.org, so please, do not post about this on
> talk.
>
>
>
I'd appreciate any testing, suggestions and bug reports about this SSU,
> before I make a proper announcement about it.
>

Are you also packaging the corresponding -tests packages [1] for the
libraries? I could give them a spin to see if they pass, etc. For the
community updates to be credible I think we should have some testing going
on for the provided updates.

After MeeGo's open test system [2] is stable enough it could be used to
automate testing (if the -tests packages and needed hardware [3] are
available). At least I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work with Maemo.

The tests can be also executed on device without the automation stuff.
Basically you need to install testrunner-lite (available from extras-devel)
and some test packages. then you do for example: 'testrunner-lite -f
/usr/share/testrunnner-lite-tests/tests.xml -v -o /home/user/results.xml'

[1] http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/QA-tools/Test_packaging
[2] http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/QA-tools/OTS
[3] n900, a PC to control testing, some software controlled device to toggle
usb and power



> I'd also like to thanks Niels and Lucas Maneos (the Diablo community SSU
> maintainer) for their help in setting this up.
>
> P.S. #maemo-ssu is the SSU's channel on Freenode.
>
>
Joined. I'm known as timoph there


--Timo

  •  Reply

Re: Fremantle Community SSU

Ville Vainio
Karma: 295
2010-11-02 07:49 UTC
On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 12:44 AM, Andrew Flegg <andrew@bleb.org> wrote:

> Well, we won't know unless we test them, will we? Having said that, it
> seems that the Nokia maintainers have been tidying up loose ends -
> and, indeed, I hope we'll even see them contributing further now that
> they have more free rein to do "what they've always wanted".

In general terms, this is the first chance for the community to really
get involved with the software and get their code deployed to tons of
devices around the world - not just as an insulated application, but
something that forms the essence of the very phone.

If this gathers steam well, It could be a sort of new start for Maemo5.

>
>>> This is not a proper announcement for the SSU, but more of a prerelease
>>> before it's posted on talk.maemo.org, so please,
>>> do not post about this on talk.
>>
>> That does not sound right. It sounds like you are trying to split this small
>> community into a few communities.
>
> No, it sounds like getting proper experienced developer feedback when
> launching something which has real possibility to lead to a reflash.
> In particular, the process with the X Terminal is already a little
> clunky (and didn't work for me directly; but did work when I ran the
> postinst as root from another X Terminal, something I've already
> reported to Mohammad).
>
>> What is your goal in setting up this SSU repository?
>
> AIUI (and Mohammad has the full backing of this council member), the
> aim is to ensure that the community SSU is up and running to deliver
> bug fixes and improvements to Maemo 5 now that Nokia have (most
> likely) completely moved on. The long delay in getting similar set up
> for Diablo meant that a lot of the impetus was lost. Now, however, the
> N900 development community has yet to move on to Harmattan (and,
> indeed, with some of the changes may not entirely) and has many more
> eager users. It's the perfect time to start building on the starting
> point delivered by Nokia. (For example, I already appreciated the
> packaging that hrw did in the past, and Mohammad is now doing, of
> Modest with the "proper quoting" and attribution patches the community
> provided; but Nokia never shipped).
>
> I can imagine a number of ways of getting involved if you want to
> help, including carving out a space on wiki.maemo.org to deal
> with/document the issues of and around:
>
>  * Release management - how does testing/QA/release work?
>  * Source code management - community SSU has branches in
>    gitorious, with "upstream" being the original projects with
>    their Nokia maintainers?
>  * Collaboration - new mailing list in addition to the IRC
>    channel?
>  * SSU utility development - improving the enabler, for example.
>  * Build process - are these packages being built from tarballs
>    by the autobuilder, or manually?
>
> I'd like to thank Mohammad again for his efforts over the last few
> months in starting this effort, and continuing with it now that
> PR1.3's been released.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Andrew
>
>
> --
> Andrew Flegg -- mailto:andrew@bleb.org  |  http://www.bleb.org/
> Maemo Community Council member
>



--
Ville M. Vainio @@ Forum Nokia
  •  Reply