Re: Banned from maemo.org - someone went ape shit nuts?!

Re: Banned from maemo.org - someone went ape shit nuts?!

Craig Woodward

2012-11-13 20:58 UTC
---- Marcin Mielniczuk <marmistrz@linux.pl> wrote:
>Anyway, I don't have enough information to judge. If someone has different
>info than Estel provided, I'd like to look at it.

Why don't you do this on your own? Go to TMO and find ANY post by Estel. You can then look up the user profile by clicking his name, and see *all* posts (most recent first). Just review the past dozen or so posts, and you will see him being just as offensive and baselessly accusatory there as he has been in this thread. Spreading lies, swearing, saying people are "brainless", or abusing their power, or doing things to "increase their ego". Meanwhile missing the enormous ego he himself has. Like admitting to breaking the rule about creating a second account to post, knowing the consequences, because he felt "above the law" and somehow justified in doing so.

Initially his little personal war was with just a few people, mainly those who took issue with his tone and his twisting of facts to fit his own warped perception of reality. As people have begun to see how much he manipulates the truth (or flat out lies), his list of those "in on the conspiracy" to somehow "overthrow" him has grown to include all of Council, the Board, and most of the respected and/or contributing community members.

Some of this may be culturally based. Maybe it's ok in Poland to call someone "brainless", while to say someone "rambles" is a huge insult. Regardless, Estel has shown great disrespect for many in this community, to the point of being blatantly hostile. He's been warned countless times on this, and each time responds with more vile and swearing, even attacking those trying to speak up on his behalf at times.

I for one welcome a rest-bit from his constant whining and lies in the forum. This is a time where the community must focus on the much more important task of transitioning to a self-maintained group. Not having him being a constant source of misdirection, false accusation, and incorrect information presented as "truth" will be good for the community right now.

---- Cosimo Kroll <zehjotkah@googlemail.com> wrote:
>Estel did not leave council on his own purpose. He was politely asked to
>leave because he ordered parts for his private CNC machine via councils
>.org mail-address without asking the rest of the council.

This is incorrect. You need to re-read the post you're referring too. Understand, this is not to criticize you, or boost anyone else. I simply want to make sure that facts are presented correctly.

Estel was *not* asked to leave because of that incodent you site, which occurred in the *first* week of our shared Council term. The incodent was dismissed as poor judgement and misunderstanding, being the first small issue in a chain of growing incidents centered around Estel. In retrospect it shows how he operates and how he thinks: From his point of view everything is about what it can do FOR him, or what he can gain from it. If it's not about him, or usable by him, then it's against him.

For example, while on Council Estel moved to push for more power/control in Council. After leaving it, he quickly shifted to chastising those remaining, and made several calls for Council to be dismantled. While creating the concept of the Board, Estel pushed to elevate Council into the position of Board once it was formed. After, he claimed Council was conspiring to do just that, even as we publicly announced elections, opened nominations, and had public review and change of proposed bylaws for months. In short, if he wasn't involved, it was corrupt. And everyone in the corrupt group was clearly doing exactly what *he* would do where he in their position, even if there was proof to the contrary.


In fact, Estel left of his own accord after feeling people were "disrespectfully ignoring" him. This stemmed from the fact that after demanding an answer to a TMO post during an IRC Council meeting, he was denied an immediate reply. Specifically, he demanded I reply to a question he asked in a TMO thread about an hour before the meeting. This is not the first time he'd pulled such a thing, posting something just before a meeting and demanding answers... And the topic was already warn thin to the point that nobody wanted to discuss it again. I told him I would reply in TMO *after* the meeting, as not to disrupt the meeting. The rest of those in the meeting agreed when he tried to push the topic, and we moved on topic wise. Before I was able to reply (before the meeting even ended, less than an hour), he posted a multi-page rant to the TMO thread saying he was stepping down because of how he was treated, and returned to the IRC meeting to announce it and post a link to the article. All of this is publicly logged and available, FYI.

Ironically, he recently called others a host of negative names for *implying* that they should perhaps step down because of the negativity he was stirring up. Saying that doing so made them unfit to be a leader...



Those are the facts.




  •  Reply

Re: Banned from maemo.org - someone went ape shit nuts?!

Marcin Mielniczuk
Karma: 554
2012-11-14 16:36 UTC
OK, but I didn't find anything bad in the first ten of the posts. But I
need to know the arguments of both sides: for which posts did Estel get
infractions?
--
Marcin



2012/11/13 Craig Woodward <woody@rochester.rr.com>

>
> ---- Marcin Mielniczuk <marmistrz@linux.pl> wrote:
> >Anyway, I don't have enough information to judge. If someone has different
> >info than Estel provided, I'd like to look at it.
>
> Why don't you do this on your own? Go to TMO and find ANY post by Estel.
> You can then look up the user profile by clicking his name, and see *all*
> posts (most recent first). Just review the past dozen or so posts, and you
> will see him being just as offensive and baselessly accusatory there as he
> has been in this thread. Spreading lies, swearing, saying people are
> "brainless", or abusing their power, or doing things to "increase their
> ego". Meanwhile missing the enormous ego he himself has. Like admitting
> to breaking the rule about creating a second account to post, knowing the
> consequences, because he felt "above the law" and somehow justified in
> doing so.
>
> Initially his little personal war was with just a few people, mainly those
> who took issue with his tone and his twisting of facts to fit his own
> warped perception of reality. As people have begun to see how much he
> manipulates the truth (or flat out lies), his list of those "in on the
> conspiracy" to somehow "overthrow" him has grown to include all of Council,
> the Board, and most of the respected and/or contributing community members.
>
> Some of this may be culturally based. Maybe it's ok in Poland to call
> someone "brainless", while to say someone "rambles" is a huge insult.
> Regardless, Estel has shown great disrespect for many in this community,
> to the point of being blatantly hostile. He's been warned countless times
> on this, and each time responds with more vile and swearing, even attacking
> those trying to speak up on his behalf at times.
>
> I for one welcome a rest-bit from his constant whining and lies in the
> forum. This is a time where the community must focus on the much more
> important task of transitioning to a self-maintained group. Not having him
> being a constant source of misdirection, false accusation, and incorrect
> information presented as "truth" will be good for the community right now.
>
> ---- Cosimo Kroll <zehjotkah@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >Estel did not leave council on his own purpose. He was politely asked to
> >leave because he ordered parts for his private CNC machine via councils
> >.org mail-address without asking the rest of the council.
>
> This is incorrect. You need to re-read the post you're referring too.
> Understand, this is not to criticize you, or boost anyone else. I simply
> want to make sure that facts are presented correctly.
>
> Estel was *not* asked to leave because of that incodent you site, which
> occurred in the *first* week of our shared Council term. The incodent was
> dismissed as poor judgement and misunderstanding, being the first small
> issue in a chain of growing incidents centered around Estel. In retrospect
> it shows how he operates and how he thinks: From his point of view
> everything is about what it can do FOR him, or what he can gain from it.
> If it's not about him, or usable by him, then it's against him.
>
> For example, while on Council Estel moved to push for more power/control
> in Council. After leaving it, he quickly shifted to chastising those
> remaining, and made several calls for Council to be dismantled. While
> creating the concept of the Board, Estel pushed to elevate Council into the
> position of Board once it was formed. After, he claimed Council was
> conspiring to do just that, even as we publicly announced elections, opened
> nominations, and had public review and change of proposed bylaws for
> months. In short, if he wasn't involved, it was corrupt. And everyone in
> the corrupt group was clearly doing exactly what *he* would do where he in
> their position, even if there was proof to the contrary.
>
>
> In fact, Estel left of his own accord after feeling people were
> "disrespectfully ignoring" him. This stemmed from the fact that after
> demanding an answer to a TMO post during an IRC Council meeting, he was
> denied an immediate reply. Specifically, he demanded I reply to a question
> he asked in a TMO thread about an hour before the meeting. This is not the
> first time he'd pulled such a thing, posting something just before a
> meeting and demanding answers... And the topic was already warn thin to the
> point that nobody wanted to discuss it again. I told him I would reply in
> TMO *after* the meeting, as not to disrupt the meeting. The rest of those
> in the meeting agreed when he tried to push the topic, and we moved on
> topic wise. Before I was able to reply (before the meeting even ended,
> less than an hour), he posted a multi-page rant to the TMO thread saying he
> was stepping down because of how he was treated, and returned to the IRC
> meeting to announce it and post a link to the article. All of this is
> publicly logged and available, FYI.
>
> Ironically, he recently called others a host of negative names for
> *implying* that they should perhaps step down because of the negativity he
> was stirring up. Saying that doing so made them unfit to be a leader...
>
>
>
> Those are the facts.
>
>
>
>
>

  •  Reply

Re: Banned from maemo.org - someone went ape shit nuts?!

Arie Mark
Karma: 17
2012-11-14 16:53 UTC
Who cares, this is a waste of time. If so many people are against Estel old and new, there must be a reason.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 14, 2012, at 11:36 AM, Marcin Mielniczuk <marmistrz@linux.pl> wrote:

> OK, but I didn't find anything bad in the first ten of the posts. But I need to know the arguments of both sides: for which posts did Estel get infractions?
> --
> Marcin
>
>
>
> 2012/11/13 Craig Woodward <woody@rochester.rr.com>
>
> ---- Marcin Mielniczuk <marmistrz@linux.pl> wrote:
> >Anyway, I don't have enough information to judge. If someone has different
> >info than Estel provided, I'd like to look at it.
>
> Why don't you do this on your own? Go to TMO and find ANY post by Estel. You can then look up the user profile by clicking his name, and see *all* posts (most recent first). Just review the past dozen or so posts, and you will see him being just as offensive and baselessly accusatory there as he has been in this thread. Spreading lies, swearing, saying people are "brainless", or abusing their power, or doing things to "increase their ego". Meanwhile missing the enormous ego he himself has. Like admitting to breaking the rule about creating a second account to post, knowing the consequences, because he felt "above the law" and somehow justified in doing so.
>
> Initially his little personal war was with just a few people, mainly those who took issue with his tone and his twisting of facts to fit his own warped perception of reality. As people have begun to see how much he manipulates the truth (or flat out lies), his list of those "in on the conspiracy" to somehow "overthrow" him has grown to include all of Council, the Board, and most of the respected and/or contributing community members.
>
> Some of this may be culturally based. Maybe it's ok in Poland to call someone "brainless", while to say someone "rambles" is a huge insult. Regardless, Estel has shown great disrespect for many in this community, to the point of being blatantly hostile. He's been warned countless times on this, and each time responds with more vile and swearing, even attacking those trying to speak up on his behalf at times.
>
> I for one welcome a rest-bit from his constant whining and lies in the forum. This is a time where the community must focus on the much more important task of transitioning to a self-maintained group. Not having him being a constant source of misdirection, false accusation, and incorrect information presented as "truth" will be good for the community right now.
>
> ---- Cosimo Kroll <zehjotkah@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >Estel did not leave council on his own purpose. He was politely asked to
> >leave because he ordered parts for his private CNC machine via councils
> >.org mail-address without asking the rest of the council.
>
> This is incorrect. You need to re-read the post you're referring too. Understand, this is not to criticize you, or boost anyone else. I simply want to make sure that facts are presented correctly.
>
> Estel was *not* asked to leave because of that incodent you site, which occurred in the *first* week of our shared Council term. The incodent was dismissed as poor judgement and misunderstanding, being the first small issue in a chain of growing incidents centered around Estel. In retrospect it shows how he operates and how he thinks: From his point of view everything is about what it can do FOR him, or what he can gain from it. If it's not about him, or usable by him, then it's against him.
>
> For example, while on Council Estel moved to push for more power/control in Council. After leaving it, he quickly shifted to chastising those remaining, and made several calls for Council to be dismantled. While creating the concept of the Board, Estel pushed to elevate Council into the position of Board once it was formed. After, he claimed Council was conspiring to do just that, even as we publicly announced elections, opened nominations, and had public review and change of proposed bylaws for months. In short, if he wasn't involved, it was corrupt. And everyone in the corrupt group was clearly doing exactly what *he* would do where he in their position, even if there was proof to the contrary.
>
>
> In fact, Estel left of his own accord after feeling people were "disrespectfully ignoring" him. This stemmed from the fact that after demanding an answer to a TMO post during an IRC Council meeting, he was denied an immediate reply. Specifically, he demanded I reply to a question he asked in a TMO thread about an hour before the meeting. This is not the first time he'd pulled such a thing, posting something just before a meeting and demanding answers... And the topic was already warn thin to the point that nobody wanted to discuss it again. I told him I would reply in TMO *after* the meeting, as not to disrupt the meeting. The rest of those in the meeting agreed when he tried to push the topic, and we moved on topic wise. Before I was able to reply (before the meeting even ended, less than an hour), he posted a multi-page rant to the TMO thread saying he was stepping down because of how he was treated, and returned to the IRC meeting to announce it and post a link to the article. All of this is publicly logged and available, FYI.
>
> Ironically, he recently called others a host of negative names for *implying* that they should perhaps step down because of the negativity he was stirring up. Saying that doing so made them unfit to be a leader...
>
>
>
> Those are the facts.
>
>
>
>
>

  •  Reply

Re: Banned from maemo.org - someone went ape shit nuts?!

Piotr Jawidzyk
Karma: 937
2012-11-15 09:59 UTC
While I couldn't care less for arie's insignificant opinion about me, his reasoning deserve small off-topic:

Off-topic:

On śro 14 lis 2012 17:53:18 CET, Arie Mark <arie@everythingn9.com> wrote:

> Who cares, this is a waste of time. If so many people are against Estel
> old and new, there must be a reason.
>
> Sent from my iPhone

Sure, behavior of a real grown-up. I'm pretty certain, that same argumentation went in mind of 90% Hutu, when they have commited 1994' genocide in Rwanda. "If so many people hate Tutsi and murder them, it must be their fault!"

Such mindless sheep's behavior is root of many problems, both insignificant, as some random loser running out of arguments and writing "who cares, it's a waste of time, if so many people...", and big, extremely huge tragedies, like mentioned Rwanda, or many other mass genocides in history.

Think of it, when you send another message "from your iphone", mr. ISheep. [/off-topic]

/Estel
  •  Reply

Re: Banned from maemo.org - someone went ape shit nuts?!

Arie Mark
Karma: 17
2012-11-15 11:58 UTC
How do you get off comparing comments on a mailing list to genocide? I come from a third world country. I have seen people killed in front of me, in the name of genocide. When you are in the same position you can make comments about genocide. Until then never mention it in regards to me again. The fact you make such an off-handed comment so childishly makes you of all people look foolish.

You have dishonored anyone that has ever been killed in a genocide.

Estel, you have made great contributions to maemo in your time here. I liked you for the longest time. You have single handedly managed to turn everyone against you, why? Doesn't this bother you? I am shocked and confused that you don't seem to get it. If you had one or two people against you fine, but it seems every one for the most part is.

At a time when we need to work together to ensure tmo is transitioned properly, you are busy arguing aimlessly with the very people that are trying to keep it alive. Am I missing something here? Do you want tmo to die down? If so please make it clear now.

Open source isn't perfect and everyone here is a volunteer, but everyone is trying to make ends meet and you are slowing that progress down. Have you asked yourself why? It's not even clear what you want? What do you really want from tmo and all this fighting?

Take a step back and see what someone else is saying. I personally want you to stay, but I don't like this combative attitude that you have brought about in tmo members at a time when we need to work together as much as possible to ensure success.


Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 15, 2012, at 4:59 AM, "twilight312@gmail.com" <twilight312@gmail.com> wrote:

> While I couldn't care less for arie's insignificant opinion about me, his reasoning deserve small off-topic:
>
> Off-topic:
>
> On śro 14 lis 2012 17:53:18 CET, Arie Mark <arie@everythingn9.com> wrote:
>
> > Who cares, this is a waste of time. If so many people are against Estel
> > old and new, there must be a reason.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
>
> Sure, behavior of a real grown-up. I'm pretty certain, that same argumentation went in mind of 90% Hutu, when they have commited 1994' genocide in Rwanda. "If so many people hate Tutsi and murder them, it must be their fault!"
>
> Such mindless sheep's behavior is root of many problems, both insignificant, as some random loser running out of arguments and writing "who cares, it's a waste of time, if so many people...", and big, extremely huge tragedies, like mentioned Rwanda, or many other mass genocides in history.
>
> Think of it, when you send another message "from your iphone", mr. ISheep. [/off-topic]
>
> /Estel
>

  •  Reply

Re: Banned from maemo.org - someone went ape shit nuts?!

Marcin Mielniczuk
Karma: 554
2012-11-15 17:38 UTC
None of you is the good one here, to be honest.

I agree with Arie, that Estel shouldn't compare this to genocide. You can
compare this to some other political things ("everyone votes for <insert
the politician name>, so there must be a reason why") but this one was
indeed disrespectful to the victims. And if he uses iPhone, don't blow him
away (not literally of course :) )

But this way "everyone's against Estel, so there must be a reason" is a way
to get manipulated. Let's suppose that there's a conspiracy against Estel
(or change Estel to whatever name you want - maybe your best friend).
"Everyone" of music industry was to support ACTA. Did it make ACTA good?

EVERYONE MAKES MISTAKES. The most important is to stop doing the mistake as
soon as possible. Including mods, including Estel, including you, including
me.
--
Marcin



2012/11/15 Arie Mark <arie@everythingn9.com>

> How do you get off comparing comments on a mailing list to genocide? I
> come from a third world country. I have seen people killed in front of me,
> in the name of genocide. When you are in the same position you can make
> comments about genocide. Until then never mention it in regards to me
> again. The fact you make such an off-handed comment so childishly makes you
> of all people look foolish.
>
> You have dishonored anyone that has ever been killed in a genocide.
>
> Estel, you have made great contributions to maemo in your time here. I
> liked you for the longest time. You have single handedly managed to turn
> everyone against you, why? Doesn't this bother you? I am shocked and
> confused that you don't seem to get it. If you had one or two people
> against you fine, but it seems every one for the most part is.
>
> At a time when we need to work together to ensure tmo is transitioned
> properly, you are busy arguing aimlessly with the very people that are
> trying to keep it alive. Am I missing something here? Do you want tmo to
> die down? If so please make it clear now.
>
> Open source isn't perfect and everyone here is a volunteer, but everyone
> is trying to make ends meet and you are slowing that progress down. Have
> you asked yourself why? It's not even clear what you want? What do you
> really want from tmo and all this fighting?
>
> Take a step back and see what someone else is saying. I personally want
> you to stay, but I don't like this combative attitude that you have brought
> about in tmo members at a time when we need to work together as much as
> possible to ensure success.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 15, 2012, at 4:59 AM, "twilight312@gmail.com" <
> twilight312@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> While I couldn't care less for arie's insignificant opinion about me, his
> reasoning deserve small off-topic:
>
> Off-topic:
>
> On śro 14 lis 2012 17:53:18 CET, Arie Mark <arie@everythingn9.com> wrote:
>
> > Who cares, this is a waste of time. If so many people are against Estel
> > old and new, there must be a reason.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
>
> Sure, behavior of a real grown-up. I'm pretty certain, that same
> argumentation went in mind of 90% Hutu, when they have commited 1994'
> genocide in Rwanda. "If so many people hate Tutsi and murder them, it must
> be their fault!"
>
> Such mindless sheep's behavior is root of many problems, both
> insignificant, as some random loser running out of arguments and writing
> "who cares, it's a waste of time, if so many people...", and big, extremely
> huge tragedies, like mentioned Rwanda, or many other mass genocides in
> history.
>
> Think of it, when you send another message "from your iphone", mr. ISheep.
> [/off-topic]
>
> /Estel
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> maemo-community mailing list
> maemo-community@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community
>
>
>
>

  •  Reply

Re: Banned from maemo.org - someone went ape shit nuts?!

Arie Mark
Karma: 17
2012-11-15 19:28 UTC
No one was against Estel before, some of his behavior recently has turned people against him.

Again this is a time when we need to stick together to ensure the survival of tmo and it's future. I personally think Estel can help out a lot, he just needs to stop fighting with us and help out or stay out of the way. I don't think anyone that doesn't see eye to eye with Estel is asking for more.

Please anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

To obtain something of equal value must be lost...

On Nov 15, 2012, at 12:38 PM, Marcin Mielniczuk <marmistrz@linux.pl> wrote:

> None of you is the good one here, to be honest.
>
> I agree with Arie, that Estel shouldn't compare this to genocide. You can compare this to some other political things ("everyone votes for <insert the politician name>, so there must be a reason why") but this one was indeed disrespectful to the victims. And if he uses iPhone, don't blow him away (not literally of course :) )
>
> But this way "everyone's against Estel, so there must be a reason" is a way to get manipulated. Let's suppose that there's a conspiracy against Estel (or change Estel to whatever name you want - maybe your best friend). "Everyone" of music industry was to support ACTA. Did it make ACTA good?
>
> EVERYONE MAKES MISTAKES. The most important is to stop doing the mistake as soon as possible. Including mods, including Estel, including you, including me.
> --
> Marcin
>
>
>
> 2012/11/15 Arie Mark <arie@everythingn9.com>
> How do you get off comparing comments on a mailing list to genocide? I come from a third world country. I have seen people killed in front of me, in the name of genocide. When you are in the same position you can make comments about genocide. Until then never mention it in regards to me again. The fact you make such an off-handed comment so childishly makes you of all people look foolish.
>
> You have dishonored anyone that has ever been killed in a genocide.
>
> Estel, you have made great contributions to maemo in your time here. I liked you for the longest time. You have single handedly managed to turn everyone against you, why? Doesn't this bother you? I am shocked and confused that you don't seem to get it. If you had one or two people against you fine, but it seems every one for the most part is.
>
> At a time when we need to work together to ensure tmo is transitioned properly, you are busy arguing aimlessly with the very people that are trying to keep it alive. Am I missing something here? Do you want tmo to die down? If so please make it clear now.
>
> Open source isn't perfect and everyone here is a volunteer, but everyone is trying to make ends meet and you are slowing that progress down. Have you asked yourself why? It's not even clear what you want? What do you really want from tmo and all this fighting?
>
> Take a step back and see what someone else is saying. I personally want you to stay, but I don't like this combative attitude that you have brought about in tmo members at a time when we need to work together as much as possible to ensure success.
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 15, 2012, at 4:59 AM, "twilight312@gmail.com" <twilight312@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> While I couldn't care less for arie's insignificant opinion about me, his reasoning deserve small off-topic:
>>
>> Off-topic:
>>
>> On śro 14 lis 2012 17:53:18 CET, Arie Mark <arie@everythingn9.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Who cares, this is a waste of time. If so many people are against Estel
>> > old and new, there must be a reason.
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> Sure, behavior of a real grown-up. I'm pretty certain, that same argumentation went in mind of 90% Hutu, when they have commited 1994' genocide in Rwanda. "If so many people hate Tutsi and murder them, it must be their fault!"
>>
>> Such mindless sheep's behavior is root of many problems, both insignificant, as some random loser running out of arguments and writing "who cares, it's a waste of time, if so many people...", and big, extremely huge tragedies, like mentioned Rwanda, or many other mass genocides in history.
>>
>> Think of it, when you send another message "from your iphone", mr. ISheep. [/off-topic]
>>
>> /Estel
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> maemo-community mailing list
>> maemo-community@maemo.org
>> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community
>

>

  •  Reply

Re: Banned from maemo.org - someone went ape shit nuts?!

Aniello Del Sorbo
Karma: 828
2012-11-16 09:36 UTC
The way he fights shows the way he is and (I think, for the little bit I
had to deal with him) also it is what he has always been. Just never showed
up as he never had to deal with these kinds of attacks or situations before.

The way he reacts now, the way he comments and writes , clearly is not a
fit for a person to guide or even help TMO. He's actually exactly doing the
opposite.

I really hope he leaves tmo for good and never comes back. The earlier he
does that, the better for everyone.

But I can bet on him keeping returning and bother the community.

Aniello

anidel


On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 7:28 PM, Arie Mark <arie@everythingn9.com> wrote:

> No one was against Estel before, some of his behavior recently has turned
> people against him.
>
> Again this is a time when we need to stick together to ensure the survival
> of tmo and it's future. I personally think Estel can help out a lot, he
> just needs to stop fighting with us and help out or stay out of the way. I
> don't think anyone that doesn't see eye to eye with Estel is asking for
> more.
>
> Please anyone feel free to correct me if I am wrong.
>
> To obtain something of equal value must be lost...
>
> On Nov 15, 2012, at 12:38 PM, Marcin Mielniczuk <marmistrz@linux.pl>
> wrote:
>
> None of you is the good one here, to be honest.
>
> I agree with Arie, that Estel shouldn't compare this to genocide. You can
> compare this to some other political things ("everyone votes for <insert
> the politician name>, so there must be a reason why") but this one was
> indeed disrespectful to the victims. And if he uses iPhone, don't blow him
> away (not literally of course :) )
>
> But this way "everyone's against Estel, so there must be a reason" is a
> way to get manipulated. Let's suppose that there's a conspiracy against
> Estel (or change Estel to whatever name you want - maybe your best friend).
> "Everyone" of music industry was to support ACTA. Did it make ACTA good?
>
> EVERYONE MAKES MISTAKES. The most important is to stop doing the mistake
> as soon as possible. Including mods, including Estel, including you,
> including me.
> --
> Marcin
>
>
>
> 2012/11/15 Arie Mark <arie@everythingn9.com>
>
>> How do you get off comparing comments on a mailing list to genocide? I
>> come from a third world country. I have seen people killed in front of me,
>> in the name of genocide. When you are in the same position you can make
>> comments about genocide. Until then never mention it in regards to me
>> again. The fact you make such an off-handed comment so childishly makes you
>> of all people look foolish.
>>
>> You have dishonored anyone that has ever been killed in a genocide.
>>
>> Estel, you have made great contributions to maemo in your time here. I
>> liked you for the longest time. You have single handedly managed to turn
>> everyone against you, why? Doesn't this bother you? I am shocked and
>> confused that you don't seem to get it. If you had one or two people
>> against you fine, but it seems every one for the most part is.
>>
>> At a time when we need to work together to ensure tmo is transitioned
>> properly, you are busy arguing aimlessly with the very people that are
>> trying to keep it alive. Am I missing something here? Do you want tmo to
>> die down? If so please make it clear now.
>>
>> Open source isn't perfect and everyone here is a volunteer, but everyone
>> is trying to make ends meet and you are slowing that progress down. Have
>> you asked yourself why? It's not even clear what you want? What do you
>> really want from tmo and all this fighting?
>>
>> Take a step back and see what someone else is saying. I personally want
>> you to stay, but I don't like this combative attitude that you have brought
>> about in tmo members at a time when we need to work together as much as
>> possible to ensure success.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 15, 2012, at 4:59 AM, "twilight312@gmail.com" <
>> twilight312@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> While I couldn't care less for arie's insignificant opinion about me, his
>> reasoning deserve small off-topic:
>>
>> Off-topic:
>>
>> On śro 14 lis 2012 17:53:18 CET, Arie Mark <arie@everythingn9.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > Who cares, this is a waste of time. If so many people are against Estel
>> > old and new, there must be a reason.
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> Sure, behavior of a real grown-up. I'm pretty certain, that same
>> argumentation went in mind of 90% Hutu, when they have commited 1994'
>> genocide in Rwanda. "If so many people hate Tutsi and murder them, it must
>> be their fault!"
>>
>> Such mindless sheep's behavior is root of many problems, both
>> insignificant, as some random loser running out of arguments and writing
>> "who cares, it's a waste of time, if so many people...", and big, extremely
>> huge tragedies, like mentioned Rwanda, or many other mass genocides in
>> history.
>>
>> Think of it, when you send another message "from your iphone", mr.
>> ISheep. [/off-topic]
>>
>> /Estel
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
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>> maemo-community@maemo.org
>> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>

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