Open Letter from the Hildon Foundation Board to the Maemo Community
Re: Open Letter from the Hildon Foundation Board to the Maemo Community
Re: Open Letter from the Hildon Foundation Board to the Maemo Community
2012-11-10 13:23 UTC
Estel weren't you banned from tmo? Why are you trolling us here in the mailing list too? This needs to stop? Can we ban him from the mailing list as well? Or at least his replies? He does nothing but waste time and it's becoming a joke.
Sent from my iPhone 4S
On Nov 10, 2012, at 5:03 AM, Andre Klapper <andre_klapper@gmx.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 2012-11-10 at 11:36 +0100, twilight312@gmail.com wrote:
>> Now, even simply writing, that practice of candidating to Council and
>> asking "people, don't vote for me" (instead of revoking own candidacy
>> - to support creating Council, that shouldn't exist, due to lack of
>> interest) is making jokes of democracy, result in being assigned ban
>> on TMO.
>
> I have no idea what you're talking about (who got banned for what, who
> said "Don't vote for me" etc.) as you keep things intentionally vague,
> plus I don't have time to read every single thread on TMO or such.
>
> But keeping things vague and questioning decisions again and again after
> they have been made is definitely a good way to drag people into endless
> (and useless?) discussions. Cheers!
>
> andre
> --
> Andre Klapper | Bugmaster
> http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/
>
Sent from my iPhone 4S
On Nov 10, 2012, at 5:03 AM, Andre Klapper <andre_klapper@gmx.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 2012-11-10 at 11:36 +0100, twilight312@gmail.com wrote:
>> Now, even simply writing, that practice of candidating to Council and
>> asking "people, don't vote for me" (instead of revoking own candidacy
>> - to support creating Council, that shouldn't exist, due to lack of
>> interest) is making jokes of democracy, result in being assigned ban
>> on TMO.
>
> I have no idea what you're talking about (who got banned for what, who
> said "Don't vote for me" etc.) as you keep things intentionally vague,
> plus I don't have time to read every single thread on TMO or such.
>
> But keeping things vague and questioning decisions again and again after
> they have been made is definitely a good way to drag people into endless
> (and useless?) discussions. Cheers!
>
> andre
> --
> Andre Klapper | Bugmaster
> http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/
>
Re: Open Letter from the Hildon Foundation Board to the Maemo Community
2012-11-10 18:48 UTC
On sob 10 lis 2012 14:03:30 CET, Andre Klapper <andre_klapper@gmx.net> wrote:
> On Sat, 2012-11-10 at 11:36 +0100, twilight312@gmail.com wrote:
> > Now, even simply writing, that practice of candidating to Council and
> > asking "people, don't vote for me" (instead of revoking own candidacy
> > - to support creating Council, that shouldn't exist, due to lack of
> > interest) is making jokes of democracy, result in being assigned ban
> > on TMO.
>
> I have no idea what you're talking about (who got banned for what, who
> said "Don't vote for me" etc.) as you keep things intentionally vague,
> plus I don't have time to read every single thread on TMO or such.
ivgalvez was candidating for Council and Board at the same time, yet, he asked - in TMO thread about Council - to not vote for him. At the same time, he refused to revoke his candidacy, as it would result in too low ammount of candidates to form Council.
I was temporaly banned from TMO, due to my post, where I stated, that in my *personal* opinion, acting like that is "lack of reaspect for other candidates", and that, again, in my opinion, he should decide if he want to be elected or not (by staying in election or revoking candidacy), as "you can't be pregnant and virgin at the same time".
Above quotations are "strongest" language from post, that was excuse for ban. Of course, it never contained any profanities, etc. Ban got extended to 6.12.2012 (maybe have something to do with santa claus...), just because I've asked moderator - via PM - which rules got broken, by *only* possible way of communication with them (PM).
---
I don't want those discussion to focus on this sole situation - I'm OK with thia decision (even if it's extremely inapproriate and, honestly, plain stupid), and, frankly, I couldn't care less for moderation standards on TMO, that is dying anyway.
I'm rather worried about whole change of "climate" around Maemo. Even of darkest days of Nokia's lack of cooperation, where people were hanging dogs on Nokia (many times, without actual merit), "rulers" were not so alergic to critic. Also, there were not so much hostility for different opinions.
Just look at those "kindergarden" ideas by zogg (sounds like some re-education ideas from chinese regime), or overall level of agression, when not-co-comforting questions are asked.
Are we really so weak, that we need to be afraid of *any* interfnal critic? It isn't matter of personal like/dislike for me, or anyone else (and I couldn't care less for being "liked", anyway...). It isn't even matter of me being right or not - I always keep in mind, that I may be completely wrong.
It's problem of reactions. It seems that nowadays, anybody who kisn't sugar-coating or "rulers" pupil (looking at you, zogg), must be ready for extreme (as for Maemo) ammount of hostility, and risk of "repressions" from wanna-be regime. Heck, even here, some miserable people would like to ban from mailing list, just because this discussion here...
> But keeping things vague and questioning decisions again and again after
> they have been made is definitely a good way to drag people into endless
> (and useless?) discussions. Cheers!
>
> andre
> --
> Andre Klapper | Bugmaster
> http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/
You're right, and I feel my fault for this unnecessary discussion. I would like to end it here - after all, it started as simple (two lines) question to the Board, inspired by welcome letter... Which got ignored by people, that got asked, anyway (not suprisingly, many people who were *not* asked, decided that their input is absolutely necessary and unavoidable).
/Estel
> On Sat, 2012-11-10 at 11:36 +0100, twilight312@gmail.com wrote:
> > Now, even simply writing, that practice of candidating to Council and
> > asking "people, don't vote for me" (instead of revoking own candidacy
> > - to support creating Council, that shouldn't exist, due to lack of
> > interest) is making jokes of democracy, result in being assigned ban
> > on TMO.
>
> I have no idea what you're talking about (who got banned for what, who
> said "Don't vote for me" etc.) as you keep things intentionally vague,
> plus I don't have time to read every single thread on TMO or such.
ivgalvez was candidating for Council and Board at the same time, yet, he asked - in TMO thread about Council - to not vote for him. At the same time, he refused to revoke his candidacy, as it would result in too low ammount of candidates to form Council.
I was temporaly banned from TMO, due to my post, where I stated, that in my *personal* opinion, acting like that is "lack of reaspect for other candidates", and that, again, in my opinion, he should decide if he want to be elected or not (by staying in election or revoking candidacy), as "you can't be pregnant and virgin at the same time".
Above quotations are "strongest" language from post, that was excuse for ban. Of course, it never contained any profanities, etc. Ban got extended to 6.12.2012 (maybe have something to do with santa claus...), just because I've asked moderator - via PM - which rules got broken, by *only* possible way of communication with them (PM).
---
I don't want those discussion to focus on this sole situation - I'm OK with thia decision (even if it's extremely inapproriate and, honestly, plain stupid), and, frankly, I couldn't care less for moderation standards on TMO, that is dying anyway.
I'm rather worried about whole change of "climate" around Maemo. Even of darkest days of Nokia's lack of cooperation, where people were hanging dogs on Nokia (many times, without actual merit), "rulers" were not so alergic to critic. Also, there were not so much hostility for different opinions.
Just look at those "kindergarden" ideas by zogg (sounds like some re-education ideas from chinese regime), or overall level of agression, when not-co-comforting questions are asked.
Are we really so weak, that we need to be afraid of *any* interfnal critic? It isn't matter of personal like/dislike for me, or anyone else (and I couldn't care less for being "liked", anyway...). It isn't even matter of me being right or not - I always keep in mind, that I may be completely wrong.
It's problem of reactions. It seems that nowadays, anybody who kisn't sugar-coating or "rulers" pupil (looking at you, zogg), must be ready for extreme (as for Maemo) ammount of hostility, and risk of "repressions" from wanna-be regime. Heck, even here, some miserable people would like to ban from mailing list, just because this discussion here...
> But keeping things vague and questioning decisions again and again after
> they have been made is definitely a good way to drag people into endless
> (and useless?) discussions. Cheers!
>
> andre
> --
> Andre Klapper | Bugmaster
> http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/
You're right, and I feel my fault for this unnecessary discussion. I would like to end it here - after all, it started as simple (two lines) question to the Board, inspired by welcome letter... Which got ignored by people, that got asked, anyway (not suprisingly, many people who were *not* asked, decided that their input is absolutely necessary and unavoidable).
/Estel
Re: Open Letter from the Hildon Foundation Board to the Maemo Community
Craig Woodward
I've never seen so much wrong in one place.
Ivan resigning would have left more than enough to form Council. Council requires 3, it currently has 5. Last I took math, 5 - 1 is still > 3. Ivan is also the only member of both Board and Council.
As for Councils role, I noted several topics where Council still has as responsibilities. YOU stopped reading at "noise filter", probably because you though it applied to you, and thus concluded it was "the only job" left to Council. Council has a lot to do, including dealing with community issues, getting a feel for where the community does and doesn't want to go, elevating important infrastructure requests or concerns, and several other functions. That's the second, and last time, I'll answer that question.
ng to
Also, your extended ban was NOT for simply PMing a moderator. It was for creating a second account, and continuing to post with it. Something clearly spelled out as what not to do when you've gotten a temporary posting ban. Anyone can look at the account "Letsee" (estel backward...) and see the posts you made with that account. You even signed your posts with your actual account name...
As for the Board "ignoring" your message, had you actually read the letter in question you would have seen that they want questions to flow through Council. Those answering it (like me, being outgoing Council) did so because we don't want their time being absorbed by petty rants. They've seen your concerns, as has everyone.
Fact of the matter is, the Council and the community decided to try this split approach after several discussions on the topic in the community. The decision was made, nominations held, elections held, it's all be in movement for months, and things are now already in place. There is no desire nor need to hear that you still dislike it, nor will it all be undone and reverted to one body because one person (you) feels it's the wrong way to go.
Like most children, you just haven't figured out that continued whining won't get you to your goal. The decision has been made. The path has been paved. Everyone else is going down the same road, because it's the road that makes the most sense to the community. If you don't like the path, that's fine. You're entitled to dislike it. But you're not entitled to whine about it constantly as we travel it and not expect to have people stop listening to you, or be kicked out the car when you become too annoying to bare.
Ivan resigning would have left more than enough to form Council. Council requires 3, it currently has 5. Last I took math, 5 - 1 is still > 3. Ivan is also the only member of both Board and Council.
As for Councils role, I noted several topics where Council still has as responsibilities. YOU stopped reading at "noise filter", probably because you though it applied to you, and thus concluded it was "the only job" left to Council. Council has a lot to do, including dealing with community issues, getting a feel for where the community does and doesn't want to go, elevating important infrastructure requests or concerns, and several other functions. That's the second, and last time, I'll answer that question.
ng to
Also, your extended ban was NOT for simply PMing a moderator. It was for creating a second account, and continuing to post with it. Something clearly spelled out as what not to do when you've gotten a temporary posting ban. Anyone can look at the account "Letsee" (estel backward...) and see the posts you made with that account. You even signed your posts with your actual account name...
As for the Board "ignoring" your message, had you actually read the letter in question you would have seen that they want questions to flow through Council. Those answering it (like me, being outgoing Council) did so because we don't want their time being absorbed by petty rants. They've seen your concerns, as has everyone.
Fact of the matter is, the Council and the community decided to try this split approach after several discussions on the topic in the community. The decision was made, nominations held, elections held, it's all be in movement for months, and things are now already in place. There is no desire nor need to hear that you still dislike it, nor will it all be undone and reverted to one body because one person (you) feels it's the wrong way to go.
Like most children, you just haven't figured out that continued whining won't get you to your goal. The decision has been made. The path has been paved. Everyone else is going down the same road, because it's the road that makes the most sense to the community. If you don't like the path, that's fine. You're entitled to dislike it. But you're not entitled to whine about it constantly as we travel it and not expect to have people stop listening to you, or be kicked out the car when you become too annoying to bare.
> Now, even simply writing, that practice of candidating to Council and
> asking "people, don't vote for me" (instead of revoking own candidacy
> - to support creating Council, that shouldn't exist, due to lack of
> interest) is making jokes of democracy, result in being assigned ban
> on TMO.
I have no idea what you're talking about (who got banned for what, who
said "Don't vote for me" etc.) as you keep things intentionally vague,
plus I don't have time to read every single thread on TMO or such.
But keeping things vague and questioning decisions again and again after
they have been made is definitely a good way to drag people into endless
(and useless?) discussions. Cheers!
andre
--
Andre Klapper | Bugmaster
http://blogs.gnome.org/aklapper/